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Author Topic: Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications  (Read 150953 times)
AlunB
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« Reply #660 on: August 23, 2011, 02:22:26 PM »

From E Gaming Review

Any takeover of Full Tilt Poker (FTP) would likely require a change of management as well as one of ownership, a lawyer representing the company has told eGaming Review.

Discussions are still ongoing between FTP and a number of potential unknown bidders as the company looks to secure an investment before the resumption of its hearing with the Alderney Gambling Control Commission (AGCC) scheduled to take place by 15 September.

Despite its exclusivity agreement coming to a close in recent weeks, the original investor which came forward following FTP’s licence suspension is still the “furthest along”, according to Jeff Ifrah, one of several attorneys from different firms called upon to represent the operator.

The investor in question is, to date, the only one that has entered into discussions with the United States Department of Justice, with a settlement seemingly a necessary precursor to any takeover, although other parties have reportedly expressed varying degrees of interest. The acquisition of the operator, however, has been delayed as the date for the resumption of FTP’s adjourned hearing edges ever closer.

“Everyone has their eye on that date, nobody wants to come to September 15th and not have a deal which is either finalised or close to finalisation to the point that it can be shared with Alderney and result in the extension of that date,” Ifrah said.

Discussing the future of Full Tilt following any potential investment, Ifrah explained that “The regulator has made its concern about prior management known, and obviously I think that any investor would want to adhere to those concerns and eliminate those concerns.”

“I’m not directly involved in any of those discussions but I assume if everything goes to plan then the announcement will bring not just a new owner and new investor but also an entirely new management team, and I assume that will all be well-coordinated and closely coordinated with the regulators,” he added.

He went on to assure players that their repayment remains the primary target, adding that “I assume there’s going to be a transition period [after any investment] and we hope that it’s not going to take that long to turn the lights back on and begin facilitating player withdrawals and obviously continue playing.”

Ifrah Law LLC, the law firm at which Ifrah is a partner, is also representing eight poker players belonging to ‘Team Full Tilt,’ in the class action lawsuit filed in late June, and was behind the motion for dismissal filed on behalf of the eight individuals (and five corporate entities) last Friday. A ninth player, John Juanda, is represented by a different firm and has filed a separate motion to dismiss.

Juanda’s legal counsel were unavailable for comment, although Ifrah did explain the timing of the latest filing.

He said: “We are disappointed the acquisition of FTP has been delayed again. A key term of the acquisition is the repayment of players and I do think the acquisition when finalized will moot this law suit. However, until then, there are court deadlines that need to be followed and we will of course adhere to such deadlines while protecting our clients' interests.”

This guy should work in PR. The lawyer I mean. Talk about controlling the news agenda...
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TightEnd
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« Reply #661 on: August 29, 2011, 04:23:14 PM »

On June 16th, Subject: Poker reported  that Full Tilt Poker had credited $60 million to players for deposits that never left their bank accounts.1 In fact, the total amount of still uncollected funds is $128 million.2 This new sum represents a very signficant portion of Full Tilt’s total obligation to players.

As we first explained in June, players who deposited by electronic funds transfer (also known as EFTs or “e-checks”) received the deposited funds instantly in their Full Tilt Poker accounts. Typically, these funds would be debited from the players’ bank accounts a few business days after their deposit.3 However, during the time period in question, many US players found that these funds were simply never taken from their bank accounts. Full Tilt had given them funds on their site for nothing.4

This was not simply an accident, as many had suspected. Full Tilt Poker was actually accepting deposits and crediting player accounts without payment processors in place to collect the money. Full Tilt had effectively given players loans without telling them, under the assumption that they could collect the debt later. According to numerous sources inside both Full Tilt and PokerStars, FTP viewed this as an opportunity to gain US customers who were unable to deposit on Stars.5

The shortfall was first mentioned publicly when the US Attorney of the Southern District of New York released a press release about Bradley Franzen’s plea bargain:

    According to his plea allocution and the Superseding Information, FRANZEN admitted that in early 2011 he had been asked to help Full Tilt Poker deal with a $60 million shortfall created by the company’s inability to find a payment processor to process transactions involving U.S. player accounts. The company was facing the shortfall because it continued to credit funds to player accounts despite being unable to actually debit (or “pull”) funds from customers.

Franzen, a payment processing middleman, was indicted on April 15th for his role in processing payments and allegedly defrauding banks on behalf of PokerStars, Full Tilt Poker, and Absolute Poker. It is not clear at this time why Franzen’s allocution only mentioned a fraction of the total shortfall.

The new figure was first mentioned publicly by lawyers representing Full Tilt in Todd Terry et al’s class action lawsuit representing US players against many of the poker site’s companies and owners, and we have confirmed it with numerous reliable sources. Though Subject: Poker has been so far unable to learn exactly how much money Full Tilt owes its players, we have learned from many sources that the total debt to US players is roughly $150 million.6 (It is unclear whether this number includes funds that were in transit on April 15th.) This, combined with the fact that US players represented between 40% and 50% of Full Tilt’s total business, suggests that the $128 million shortfall represents over one third of FTP’s total debt to players.

It is extremely unlikely that Full Tilt Poker will be able to recover a significant portion of this money. Full Tilt’s lawyers also reported during the class action lawsuit that only $9 million of this $128 million is still recoverable by simply debiting players’ Full Tilt accounts.7 That money will likely be recovered.

However, the remaining $119 million is very unlikely to be returned. Full Tilt has made an explicit agreement with the Department of Justice not to accept deposits from US players. Even if that hurdle were overcome, these debts range from over four months old to over a year old, and most of the players are unaware that they even owe money to the poker site. Full Tilt Poker had serious troubles with reversed transactions, emptied bank accounts, and customer complaints trying to collect these debts four months ago. These problems would doubtless be worse now.
Footnotes

   1. We recommend that interested readers read our previous article on this topic to get a better understanding of how this problem arose and the many troubles that it caused the poker site. ↩
   2. We have unable to determine the total amount that was deposited in this way. We feel that the remaining uncollected amount is more relevant. ↩
   3. This lag of a few days naturally leads to the possibility of fraud. This is a significant cost for poker sites. ↩
   4. Subject: Poker reviewed the records of one such individual, who was immediately charged for only about two thirds of his dozens of deposits. We’ve heard from many US players who say that they made many more deposits and were charged for none of them. We’ve also heard a lot of anecdotal evidence about people who reportedly intentionally scammed this system for tens of thousands of dollars, depositing the maximum of $2,500 repeatedly. ↩
   5. PokerStars was discouraged from accepting deposits without payment processors in place by its licensing agreement with The Isle of Man Gambling Supervision Commission, which requires it to keep player funds in a separate account. Subject: Poker has heard from many reliable sources that Stars never engaged in such activity to a significant extent. ↩
   6. This number was also mentioned in the class action lawsuit. ↩
   7. In other words, if a player deposited $1,000 and Full Tilt Poker never collected this money, Full Tilt could debit up to $1,000 from his account. ↩

http://www.subjectpoker.com/2011/08/ftps-60m-shortfall-actually-much-larger/
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« Reply #662 on: August 31, 2011, 08:59:59 AM »

As is obvious from the events that have transpired since April 15th, Full Tilt Poker was not prepared for the far-reaching, US government enforcement effort of Black Friday.

The events of Black Friday came on the heels of prior government enforcement activities and significant theft. Over the two years preceding Black Friday, the US government seized approximately $115M of player funds located in U.S. banks. While we believed that offering peer-to-peer online poker did not violate any federal laws—a belief supported by many solid and well-reasoned legal opinions—the DOJ took a different view. In addition, as was widely reported, a key payment processor stole approximately $42M from Full Tilt Poker. Until April 15th, Full Tilt Poker had always covered these losses so that no player was ever affected. Finally, during late 2010 and early 2011, Full Tilt Poker experienced unprecedented issues with some of its third-party processors that greatly contributed to its financial problems. While the company was on its way to addressing the problems caused by these processors, Full Tilt Poker never anticipated that the DOJ would proceed as it did by seizing our global domain name and shutting down the site worldwide.

Over the last four months, Full Tilt Poker has been actively exploring opportunities with outside investors in order to stabilize the company and pay back our players. At least six of those groups, including hedge funds, operators of other internet businesses and individual investors, have visited Dublin to inspect the operation. We have recently engaged an additional financial advisor through an investment banking group to assist us in our search for an infusion of cash as well as a new management team to restore the site and repay players. While any deal of this nature is necessarily complex given the current regulatory environment, our players should know that Full Tilt Poker is fully committed to paying them back in full and restoring confidence in our operations.


Statement to Forbes.com last night.
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boldie
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« Reply #663 on: August 31, 2011, 09:11:47 AM »

IOW, we have been in trouble for a long time and kept quiet about it.
Noone has actually come close to sticking a bid in for us.
We'll obviously say we're commited to giving people their money back but we all know that that's never going to happen.
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« Reply #664 on: August 31, 2011, 09:58:03 AM »


"Thats correct.

They might also be able to pay if they got bailed out by the US Government, if the queen of England agreed to pay $500 Million to have sex with Phil Ivey or if Gaddafi agrees to buy Full Tilt so he can hide in one of Ray Bitars chins.

In other words, keep dreaming.
"

Cheesy
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« Reply #665 on: August 31, 2011, 10:01:13 AM »

There is no money

They will not be bought as an entity

Any money realised will not go to players

Gg Lederer, bitar, et al  you turned a billion dollar company into shit! Hope prison is a sobering timefor you all
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« Reply #666 on: August 31, 2011, 12:18:23 PM »

I cannot believe that any company would be as naive as FTP appear to have been with regards to accepting and crediting deposits without having a payment processor in place.  You only need to look at credit bookmakers to show that bad debt is a big part of that business and given margins are much thinner in poker it was a business plan that literally had less than a 1% chance of succeeding.  In fact it is so bad that I am really struggling to believe that this can have been true or certainly that it represents as big a prt of their business and the subsequent liabilities as is made out by Subject:poker.
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« Reply #667 on: August 31, 2011, 12:53:30 PM »

I cannot believe that any company would be as naive as FTP appear to have been with regards to accepting and crediting deposits without having a payment processor in place. 

It was very much true.  Stars had the same problem but very swiftly stopped offering it as a deposit method.  The reason FTP did the whole credit now and collect later thing was management saw it as their chance to steal USA customers who would have played on stars but couldnt because they couldnt deposit on there.
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« Reply #668 on: August 31, 2011, 03:49:32 PM »

its all flushys fault, what a nob
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AlunB
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« Reply #669 on: August 31, 2011, 04:22:00 PM »

As is obvious from the events that have transpired since April 15th, Full Tilt Poker was not prepared for the far-reaching, US government enforcement effort of Black Friday..... Full Tilt Poker never anticipated that the DOJ would proceed as it did by seizing our global domain name and shutting down the site worldwide.

Statement to Forbes.com last night.

Really? Are you f***** kidding me? OK so nobody expected it to happen exactly as it did, but EVERYBODY in the business thought it MIGHT happen.
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« Reply #670 on: August 31, 2011, 04:23:19 PM »

its all flushys fault, what a nob
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« Reply #671 on: August 31, 2011, 07:59:48 PM »

its all flushys fault, what a nob
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« Reply #672 on: August 31, 2011, 08:12:16 PM »

its all flushys fault, what a nob

This Full Tilt stuff has hit Flushy hard - he's resorted to stealing Jake Cody's lucky underpants off a beach in order to get some rungood.
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paulhouk03
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« Reply #673 on: August 31, 2011, 08:45:39 PM »

i loved full tilt   Cry
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« Reply #674 on: September 02, 2011, 06:14:43 PM »

Interesting stuff in here

http://www.cardplayer.com/poker-news/11949-tournament-backing-in-an-evolving-poker-world
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