Black Friday and the aftermath: Online Poker Implications

[mondatoo]

Ladbrokes just reported Poker Revenues down 12% in the quarter.

If memory serves correct, that's about the 10th successive qtr in which Laddies Poker has declined. Not sure how long that can continue.

Its damaging to the overall brand, & I'm sure, having failed to buy someone else, or sell it, they'll close it soon, but I've been saying that for 2 years now, so probz I got it wrong.

There'll be quite an exodus of Rooms from Online Poker in the next few years though, of that, I'm very sure.

Maybe it will improve now they've stopped them Swedish kids pwning them  So com, wpwp Ladbrokes.

[TightEnd]

Bwin.party (Pwin) co-CEO Jim Ryan recently revealed to Forbes.com that he’s spent the last month or more crisscrossing the United States, doing his dog and pony show for potential investors. Part of his act included a one-page chart that listed the top online poker companies, with red lines struck through the ones that had quit the US market following Black Friday. With the big three out of the picture, Ryan claims his own PartyPoker brand has moved to the top of this list, at least in terms of consumer awareness (since Party doesn’t actually take US customers). So there you have it. PartyPoker: Olympic gold medalists in online poker, provided the original gold, silver and bronze medalists are all disqualified on technicalities.

While admitting “there is no guarantee that online gaming will ever regulate in the US,” Ryan says his “focus” remains on America. When pressed, Ryan is realistic that the only way a foreign company like his will ever get to play in any regulated US market will be as a technology provider only. He also finally admits that there is a good chance (this site and most others who understand this issue consider it a certainty) that poker will be rolled out state by state and not federally. But Ryan comes off the rails when the subject turns to the $105m settlement PartyGaming paid the US Department of Justice to apologize for having accepted bets from US citizens pre-UIGEA.

Ryan apparently feels the DoJ settlement has lowered the US drawbridge for his new company, but he’s forgetting that the company that settled with the DoJ has since grown another head. Bwin.com took bets (sports bets, in particular) from US citizens pre-UIGEA, just as PartyGaming did, but Bwin never reached a PartyGaming-style settlement with the DoJ. Ryan and Bwin.party co-CEO Norbert Teufelberger appear to believe PartyGaming’s settlement works like a plus-one invitation. Sorry, but this is America. Nobody rides for free, and in the eyes of US law, the Bwin.party merger means we now have a company that hasn’t settled, not one that has.

Additionally, American law requires license-holders to be of good character. No doubt the DoJ is all too aware that Teufelberger was arrested for operating an unregulated and illegal online gambling site in France in 2006. At the time, a Bwin spokesperson admitted that the site knew it was operating in violation of French gaming laws. A German appeals court recently told Bwin that it was operating illegally in Germany – and had been for years — but as Germany represents Bwin’s biggest revenue stream, Bwin continues to insist the law has it all wrong. So the DoJ will likely add ‘unrepentant’ to Bwin’s list of perceived character flaws.

PartyGaming is in a no-win situation here. If the DoJ forces Bwin to make financial penance, then the cost will be borne by Bwin.party shareholders. If, on the other hand, the DoJ lets Bwin off without a penalty (as in the curious case of 888 Holdings), then the $105m of shareholders’ money that PartyGaming surrendered to the DoJ was a completely unnecessary expenditure. With so much invested and absolutely zero sign of any return on that investment, it’s small wonder that Ryan’s focus is on America. Meanwhile, back in London, Bwin.party stock came within a couple pence of its all-time low on Tuesday. What will the dawn’s early light bring Jim Ryan?

source: igamingbusiness

[TightEnd]

The Alderney Gambling Control Commission has released a new statement clarifying the amount of money seized by the Department of Justice from Full Tilt Poker. The AGCC originally reported that the amount seized from Full Tilt between June 2007 and June 2011 was $331m.
The new statement reads, “AGCC wishes to correct and clarify an erroneous statement contained in the Commission tribunal’s published determination notice of the hearing into Full Tilt, which includes the statement: “the individual seizures made by the Department of Justice during the period June 28, 2007 to June 20, 2011, which amount to a cumulative total of approximately $331 million US Dollars.” The underlying evidence in the hearing clearly demonstrated that $331 million was the total of funds unavailable to Full Tilt, of which DOJ seizures formed only a part. The mis-statement is thus not of significance in the Commission’s assessment of the matter."

[Woodsey]

One player had 6 mill on deposit apparently 

http://www.pokerportal.asia/featured-articles/pocket-kings-cut-180-employees

[deepreacher]

Is there any hope of us ever getting our money back?

[boldie]

Is there any hope of us ever getting our money back?

No

[ManuelsMum]

One player had 6 mill on deposit apparently  

http://www.pokerportal.asia/featured-articles/pocket-kings-cut-180-employees

The forum thread on 2+2 that is linked to in that article has been removed, could be a troll or could be a threat from FTP.

It can still be accessed via the google cache FWIW:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:9oHt6iV58ZoJ:forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29/news-views-gossip/ftp-employees-answer-questions-1116371/+FTP+Employees+answer+questions&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk

You can't use the number indexing on the cached page to move around the thread, you have find each cache page in google manually AFAIK

Google search: ftp-employees-answer-questions index4.html

Use the RHS arrowbar to bring up the preview and then click on cache. Change search to index5.html and iterate...

[TightEnd]

After weeks of waiting, Subject: Poker can confirm that Groupe Bernard Tapie and the US Department of Justice have come to terms that allows GBT’s acquisition of Full Tilt Poker to continue. If FTP’s current shareholders agree to acquisition of their company, this deal with the DOJ will provide for payment of all players worldwide.

Multiple sources have confirmed to S:P that the following email went out this morning to Tiltware shareholders from Ray Bitar:

    Dear members,

    I am pleased to announce that today the Department of Justice and Groupe Bernard Tapie have reached an agreement in principle regarding the acquisition of the companies comprising FullTiltPoker. My understanding is the deal provides that in exchange for an agreed upon payment by GBT, and a GBT commitment to assume responsibility for payment of ROW players, DoJ will reimburse US players and settle the outstanding civil litigation with the companies comprising FTP. Beyond these conditions, issues like the time frame and process for repayment of players remain unclear at this point and time.

    With DoJ’s consent now in hand, GBT may now proceed to finalize an agreement to acquire the companies or assets that comprise FTP.  That agreement will very likely address the status of your shares or interests in the successor company. When I receive that agreement, I will coordinate with our attorneys to ensure  the terms of that proposed agreement will be shared with the membership and voted on.

    -Ray

Final details are still being worked out between GBT and the US Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York. Subject: Poker hopes to be able to report the full terms of the deal in the coming days. Once this is complete, Groupe Bernard Tapie will be able to propose a deal to acquire Full Tilt Poker directly to its shareholders. Members representing two thirds of ownership interest must vote to approve any such deal.

Subject: Poker has confirmed from numerous sources that, if shareholders agree to GBT’s proposal, Groupe Bernard Tapie will assume responsibility of Full Tilt’s debt to non-US players and the US DOJ will set up a fund to repay US players. We do not know at this time what the timeline for such repayment will be.

If current FTP shareholders agree to the sale, GBT can move on to licensing, making the new company one step closer to launch.1

Again, Subject: Poker is activelyworking to bring our readers the full details of the deal, and we will publish what we know as soon as possible. We typically do not publish such information with so little detail, but we felt that this situation warranted fast publication.
Footnotes

[Bongo]

So there's no detail of how/when/if RoW players would be paid?

[DaveShoelace]

So there's no detail of how/when/if RoW players would be paid?

Apparently some Spanish magazine linked to the Tapies have been surveying some FTP players asking how they would prefer repayment:
A) In full but with a delay
B) In the form of an equity stake in the company
C) Immediately but taking a % hit (dunno what the % suggested is)

[TightEnd]

Laurent Tapie has confirmed in an interview with iGaming France that “a tentative agreement” between the US Department of Justice and Groupe Bernard Tapie has been reached. Furthermore, a “final agreement” should be signed within the next 15 days.
The agreement would account for repayment terms of US players by the Department of Justice and repayment of worldwide players by Groupe Bernard Tapie. US players are owed roughly $150m, a little over half of the total debt. Current shareholders still must agree to the terms of the deal.


Tapie has said that January 2012 is his target date for the relaunch of Full Tilt Poker but as of yet no timescale for repayment has been announced.

[TRIP5]

Laurent Tapie has confirmed in an interview with iGaming France that “a tentative agreement” between the US Department of Justice and Groupe Bernard Tapie has been reached. Furthermore, a “final agreement” should be signed within the next 15 days.
The agreement would account for repayment terms of US players by the Department of Justice and repayment of worldwide players by Groupe Bernard Tapie. US players are owed roughly $150m, a little over half of the total debt. Current shareholders still must agree to the terms of the deal.


Tapie has said that January 2012 is his target date for the relaunch of Full Tilt Poker but as of yet no timescale for repayment has been announced.

WOW! Lots to do in two months then...

[pokerfan]

Colorful past Mr Tapie.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Tapie

[TightEnd]

In early November, Laurent Tapie confirmed that a "tentative agreement" between Groupe Bernard Tapie and the US Department of Justice had been reached.

At the time, Tapie revealed that a "final agreement" was being finalized and "should be signed in the next 15 days". Tapie's lawyer revealed that GBT and the DoJ had come to an oral agreement that was "in the process of being reduced to writing". Full Tilt Poker attorney would later claim that there were still some issues to be resolved.

Tapie made these comments on November 2nd, meaning that he was hoping to have a finalized agreement in place by November 17th (Thursday). Tapie has publicly stated that he hopes to have Full Tilt Poker back up and running by January of 2012. Given the amount of work that will have to be done before a successful relaunch of the site takes place, you would think that Groupe Bernard Tapie would like to have a signed deal in place before the start of December.

--

If and when a final agreement is announced, the real work will then begin.

Groupe Bernard Tapie will have to deal with a raft of different issues before Full Tilt Poker can be relaunched, including:

1. Figuring out the true balances of all players.
2. Acquiring a license.
3. Figuring out a marketing plan.
4. Figuring out which sponsored pros will be kept/cut.
5. Setting up/restoring payment processing agreements.
6. Co-ordinating with the DoJ to facilitate payouts to US players.

The list goes on and on - GBT certainly has plenty of work to do before Full Tilt Poker can open its doors once again.

First though, Groupe Bernard Tapie has to finalize their deal with the DoJ. Hopefully we hear some news on that front in the coming days..

http://www.poker-king.com/poker-king-articles.php?article=1225

[TightEnd]

Two of the men indicted by Black Friday had sought to get the indictments thrown out on the grounds that the UIGEA did not apply to poker, it being a game of skill. The US Department of Justice responded with a 58-page counter-argument, including a case of mistaken identity in using country and western lyrics to prove a point. No, really.
“Federal courts have repeatedly and consistently upheld [the UIGEA] to poker,” the DoJ said. “For example, at least three Circuits have specifically affirmed a defendant’s conviction where the sole gambling business at issue was the operation of a poker room.”


One of the legal citations is a 1888 case and another argument is that the Kenny Rogers song contains the lyrics “about knowing when to ‘hold em’ and when to ‘fold em’” because it is called “The Gambler.” They do, however, misattribute it to Willie Nelson.


You can read the full 58 page response

http://pokerati.com/files/opposition_defense_motoins_to_dismiss.pdf