AK in a cash game (.5/1)

[Whollyflush]

Guy uve gone wobbly in the head. Wtfs happened? Srsly

fwiw i'd almost go as far to say c/c is horrific in a live cash game with no real reads. i'd b/c or b/f depending how many times his nose twitches. His range is just too wide to c/c.

Also im not sure how check/something OOP is ever pot controlling. If you want to bluff catch and suspect hes capable, have a backup plan (Ackx/KxTc) i think this is the wrong hand to do it with.

[outragous76]

Guy uve gone wobbly in the head. Wtfs happened? Srsly

Just to confirm we had the worst of it

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 990  games     0.015 secs    66,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    47.273%     46.36%    00.91%               459            9.00   { AhKh }
Hand 1:    52.727%     51.82%    00.91%               513            9.00   { KcTc }


---

[SuuPRlim]

Guy uve gone wobbly in the head. Wtfs happened? Srsly

Just to confirm we had the worst of it

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

 990  games     0.015 secs    66,000  games/sec

Board:

Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    47.273%     46.36%    00.91%               459            9.00   { AhKh }
Hand 1:    52.727%     51.82%    00.91%               513            9.00   { KcTc }


---

I think its a bit thin to use this specific stoe as an example as we're getting close to the top of his range now.

also fwiw would be absolutley fine to b/get in vs this hand

[outragous76]

i agree - but I had already posted the hand when i made my comment, it was a hand and comment of fact - not range.

I havent stoved it but i dont think his range is that different an outcome

[outragous76]

ok couldnt resist - gave him everything except bluffs and hands I believe he raises pre (100% of the time)

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

  81,180  games     0.016 secs     5,073,750  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    52.746%     49.57%    03.18%             40238         2581.00   { AhKh }
Hand 1:    47.254%     44.07%    03.18%             35780         2581.00   { AQs-ATs, KJs+, KcTc, QTs+, JTs, AQo-ATo, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }


---

[outragous76]

Moving this debate on then (and obv focusing on my reason for the fold)


You are sat at a table, you are in for 400, with 160 sat in front of you, and you are not reloading if you go broke.

You believe that you have a significant edge over the table (mostly soft spots), are you happy to flip for the lot, or prefer to play on 4 hours and see what happens?

[George2Loose]

Moving this debate on then (and obv focusing on my reason for the fold)


You are sat at a table, you are in for 400, with 160 sat in front of you, and you are not reloading if you go broke.

You believe that you have a significant edge over the table (mostly soft spots), are you happy to flip for the lot, or prefer to play on 4 hours and see what happens?

Flip.

[SuuPRlim]

Moving this debate on then (and obv focusing on my reason for the fold)


You are sat at a table, you are in for 400, with 160 sat in front of you, and you are not reloading if you go broke.

You believe that you have a significant edge over the table (mostly soft spots), are you happy to flip for the lot, or prefer to play on 4 hours and see what happens?

Flip.

[GreekStein]

U can't wanna play on if ur gonna play sooo weak post flop. You might as well give the dealer the 160 quid and tell him to give the table 40 quid an hour so you don't have to be there doing it.

If you don't wanna flip etc, then check the ak pre. Can't make it 11bb and auto assume ur beat when u check flop.

[George2Loose]

U can't wanna play on if ur gonna play sooo weak post flop. You might as well give the dealer the 160 quid and tell him to give the table 40 quid an hour so you don't have to be there doing it.

If you don't wanna flip etc, then check the ak pre. Can't make it 11bb and auto assume ur beat when u check flop.

Cos crushing itt

[Whollyflush]

ok couldnt resist - gave him everything except bluffs and hands I believe he raises pre (100% of the time)

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

  81,180  games     0.016 secs     5,073,750  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    52.746%     49.57%    03.18%             40238         2581.00   { AhKh }
Hand 1:    47.254%     44.07%    03.18%             35780         2581.00   { AQs-ATs, KJs+, KcTc, QTs+, JTs, AQo-ATo, KTo+, QTo+, JTo }


---

This range is far too tight for sum1 who limps behind 2 players and calls a range. You should distribute a portion of pure airballs in there aswell (maybe 10%)

[redarmi]

You have to flip in this spot if you think it is a flip because the money in the middle means you are getting over even money.  People tend to overestimate the edges that tend to have in this game.  You have to push the fairly small edges all the time to make money especially in cash games.  Tournaments are slightly different because you aren't faced with actual cash EV calculations in every hand in so far as that if, for example, you double up in the first hand you don't actually win money and your EV doesn't double so in a tournament it may be correctbto make this fold.  In a cash game it can never be correct.  You have to look at cash games from the long term and take every small edge possible.  The result tonight doesn't matter every time you make a -EV decision you lose money and every time you make a +EV decision you win money.  Whether you play anymore hands tonight or not is pretty irrelevant in the long run so long as you are rolled properly and if you aren't then sure avoid the flip but you should be playing lower.

[Whollyflush]

You have to flip in this spot if you think it is a flip because the money in the middle means you are getting over even money.  People tend to overestimate the edges that tend to have in this game.  You have to push the fairly small edges all the time to make money especially in cash games.  Tournaments are slightly different because you aren't faced with actual cash EV calculations in every hand in so far as that if, for example, you double up in the first hand you don't actually win money and your EV doesn't double so in a tournament it may be correctbto make this fold.  In a cash game it can never be correct.  You have to look at cash games from the long term and take every small edge possible.  The result tonight doesn't matter every time you make a -EV decision you lose money and every time you make a +EV decision you win money.  Whether you play anymore hands tonight or not is pretty irrelevant in the long run so long as you are rolled properly and if you aren't then sure avoid the flip but you should be playing lower.

zing!

[AlexMartin]

Guy uve gone wobbly in the head. Wtfs happened? Srsly

fwiw i'd almost go as far to say c/c is horrific in a live cash game with no real reads. i'd b/c or b/f depending how many times his nose twitches. His range is just too wide to c/c.

Also im not sure how check/something OOP is ever pot controlling. If you want to bluff catch and suspect hes capable, have a backup plan (Ackx/KxTc) i think this is the wrong hand to do it with.

thought this whole thread was a level, now iv just foundout i played with you in Luton and never even said hi.


can people please stop using the word lead, it implies a donkbet, but in this context is actually just a bet.

[Free_Rollin]

Don't know how the 99>AA or AQ > AK hands happened but that's gunna decide how I'm playing this hand. If he was spazzy in those hands I'd probably look to check/call down and if he was really stationy and got there then just bet/bet/jam safe-ish cards.

This.

Guy uve gone wobbly in the head. Wtfs happened? Srsly

fwiw i'd almost go as far to say c/c is horrific in a live cash game with no real reads. i'd b/c or b/f depending how many times his nose twitches. His range is just too wide to c/c.

Also im not sure how check/something OOP is ever pot controlling. If you want to bluff catch and suspect hes capable, have a backup plan (Ackx/KxTc) i think this is the wrong hand to do it with.

thought this whole thread was a level, now iv just foundout i played with you in Luton and never even said hi.


can people please stop using the word lead, it implies a donkbet, but in this context is actually just a bet.

Deffo this. Alex crushes.

Guy, I'd personally bet the flop. I'm not in love with a check-call, but it does have its merits. The reason I don't like it is because I feel the villain may bet the flop, but turn and river will go check-check too often, and we're missing out on value.