i am struggling with V bets

[AlexMartin]

i am struggling when i should be value betting and when i should be checking to allow the oppo to bet

every time i try to value bet they are folding

everytime i check they are checking behind with hands they would of called a value bet

anyone help?

bluff more. a lot more.

[Ironside]

did i make the right play here?

PokerStars Game #63036760589: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (2500/5000) - 2011/06/06 23:15:07 WET [2011/06/06 18:15:07 ET]
Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: FeyeCas (246690 in chips)
Seat 2: Scorer11 (15633 in chips)
Seat 3: jhn3469 (94228 in chips)
Seat 4: SOCKET 11 (248505 in chips)
Seat 5: jopie.64. (49919 in chips)
Seat 6: uarts2 (188077 in chips)
Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (340862 in chips)
Seat 8: Ironside (399316 in chips)
Seat 9: alivladimir (57206 in chips)
FeyeCas: posts the ante 500
Scorer11: posts the ante 500
jhn3469: posts the ante 500
SOCKET 11: posts the ante 500
jopie.64.: posts the ante 500
uarts2: posts the ante 500
tommygotNUTZ: posts the ante 500
Ironside: posts the ante 500
alivladimir: posts the ante 500
Ironside: posts small blind 2500
alivladimir: posts big blind 5000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
FeyeCas: raises 6190 to 11190
Scorer11: folds
jhn3469: folds
SOCKET 11: folds
jopie.64.: calls 11190
uarts2: folds
tommygotNUTZ: calls 11190
Ironside: calls 8690
FeyeCas said, "nice pot"
FeyeCas said, ";P"
alivladimir: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Ironside: bets 25000
FeyeCas: calls 25000
jopie.64.: raises 13229 to 38229 and is all-in
tommygotNUTZ: folds
Ironside: calls 13229
FeyeCas: calls 13229
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Ironside: checks
FeyeCas: checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Ironside: bets 80000
FeyeCas: calls 80000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [ ] (three of a kind, Sixes)
FeyeCas: shows [ ] (a pair of Queens)
FeyeCas said, "WP"
Ironside collected 160000 from side pot
FeyeCas said, "dam"
jopie.64.: mucks hand
Ironside collected 168947 from main pot
jopie.64. finished the tournament in 68th place and received $31.04.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 328947 Main pot 168947. Side pot 160000. | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: FeyeCas showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: Scorer11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: jhn3469 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: SOCKET 11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: jopie.64. mucked [ ]
Seat 6: uarts2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Ironside (small blind) showed [ ] and won (328947) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 9: alivladimir (big blind) folded before Flop

[Ironside]

i am struggling when i should be value betting and when i should be checking to allow the oppo to bet

every time i try to value bet they are folding

everytime i check they are checking behind with hands they would of called a value bet

anyone help?

bluff more. a lot more.

wow your first to tell me that everyone at present is telling me to bluff less

[EvilPie]

Do what alex says.

Also look at your line through the hand and try to figure out what they might put you on.

Can they put you on a bluff?

If they can then value bet light and I mean very light. Bottom pair or ace high with a decent kicker are the sort of hands I mean.

What does their line look like? Do they look like they want to get to a cheap showdown? If they do then they probably have something good enough to call what looks like a stab at a pot.

Just make sure that what you have is better than what they have.

Occasionally you are going to get called and lose. This is fine because it means you will now get called more often so get paid more often on your value bets.

It also means that you have to cut down on your bluffs because you are more likely to get called.

It's all about balancing your bluffs, value bets and also betting your monsters.

Your monsters won't get paid if you don't value bet or bluff often enough.

[EvilPie]

did i make the right play here?

PokerStars Game #63036760589: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (2500/5000) - 2011/06/06 23:15:07 WET [2011/06/06 18:15:07 ET]
Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: FeyeCas (246690 in chips)
Seat 2: Scorer11 (15633 in chips)
Seat 3: jhn3469 (94228 in chips)
Seat 4: SOCKET 11 (248505 in chips)
Seat 5: jopie.64. (49919 in chips)
Seat 6: uarts2 (188077 in chips)
Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (340862 in chips)
Seat 8: Ironside (399316 in chips)
Seat 9: alivladimir (57206 in chips)
FeyeCas: posts the ante 500
Scorer11: posts the ante 500
jhn3469: posts the ante 500
SOCKET 11: posts the ante 500
jopie.64.: posts the ante 500
uarts2: posts the ante 500
tommygotNUTZ: posts the ante 500
Ironside: posts the ante 500
alivladimir: posts the ante 500
Ironside: posts small blind 2500
alivladimir: posts big blind 5000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
FeyeCas: raises 6190 to 11190
Scorer11: folds
jhn3469: folds
SOCKET 11: folds
jopie.64.: calls 11190
uarts2: folds
tommygotNUTZ: calls 11190
Ironside: calls 8690
FeyeCas said, "nice pot"
FeyeCas said, ";P"
alivladimir: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Ironside: bets 25000
FeyeCas: calls 25000
jopie.64.: raises 13229 to 38229 and is all-in
tommygotNUTZ: folds
Ironside: calls 13229
FeyeCas: calls 13229
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Ironside: checks
FeyeCas: checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Ironside: bets 80000
FeyeCas: calls 80000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [ ] (three of a kind, Sixes)
FeyeCas: shows [ ] (a pair of Queens)
FeyeCas said, "WP"
Ironside collected 160000 from side pot
FeyeCas said, "dam"
jopie.64.: mucks hand
Ironside collected 168947 from main pot
jopie.64. finished the tournament in 68th place and received $31.04.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 328947 Main pot 168947. Side pot 160000. | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: FeyeCas showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: Scorer11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: jhn3469 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: SOCKET 11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: jopie.64. mucked [ ]
Seat 6: uarts2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Ironside (small blind) showed [ ] and won (328947) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 9: alivladimir (big blind) folded before Flop

Personally I like to get it in on the flop.

There's a lot of action killers on the turn and river which may lose your customer.

Conversely there are cards that you don't like as well so they slow you down.

There's a good chance of getting it in here against AQ, KQ, KK, AA and plenty of flush draws.

If you're getting his stack it's just as likely now as on later streets so just get it in.

EDIT: Scrap this. Just noticed raise on flop was an all in under raise.

Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing.

[Ironside]

did i make the right play here?

PokerStars Game #63036760589: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (2500/5000) - 2011/06/06 23:15:07 WET [2011/06/06 18:15:07 ET]
Table '424010421 119' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: FeyeCas (246690 in chips)
Seat 2: Scorer11 (15633 in chips)
Seat 3: jhn3469 (94228 in chips)
Seat 4: SOCKET 11 (248505 in chips)
Seat 5: jopie.64. (49919 in chips)
Seat 6: uarts2 (188077 in chips)
Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (340862 in chips)
Seat 8: Ironside (399316 in chips)
Seat 9: alivladimir (57206 in chips)
FeyeCas: posts the ante 500
Scorer11: posts the ante 500
jhn3469: posts the ante 500
SOCKET 11: posts the ante 500
jopie.64.: posts the ante 500
uarts2: posts the ante 500
tommygotNUTZ: posts the ante 500
Ironside: posts the ante 500
alivladimir: posts the ante 500
Ironside: posts small blind 2500
alivladimir: posts big blind 5000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
FeyeCas: raises 6190 to 11190
Scorer11: folds
jhn3469: folds
SOCKET 11: folds
jopie.64.: calls 11190
uarts2: folds
tommygotNUTZ: calls 11190
Ironside: calls 8690
FeyeCas said, "nice pot"
FeyeCas said, ";P"
alivladimir: folds
*** FLOP *** [ ]
Ironside: bets 25000
FeyeCas: calls 25000
jopie.64.: raises 13229 to 38229 and is all-in
tommygotNUTZ: folds
Ironside: calls 13229
FeyeCas: calls 13229
*** TURN *** [ ] []
Ironside: checks
FeyeCas: checks
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
Ironside: bets 80000
FeyeCas: calls 80000
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Ironside: shows [ ] (three of a kind, Sixes)
FeyeCas: shows [ ] (a pair of Queens)
FeyeCas said, "WP"
Ironside collected 160000 from side pot
FeyeCas said, "dam"
jopie.64.: mucks hand
Ironside collected 168947 from main pot
jopie.64. finished the tournament in 68th place and received $31.04.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 328947 Main pot 168947. Side pot 160000. | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: FeyeCas showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Queens
Seat 2: Scorer11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: jhn3469 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: SOCKET 11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: jopie.64. mucked [ ]
Seat 6: uarts2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: tommygotNUTZ (button) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Ironside (small blind) showed [ ] and won (328947) with three of a kind, Sixes
Seat 9: alivladimir (big blind) folded before Flop

Personally I like to get it in on the flop.

There's a lot of action killers on the turn and river which may lose your customer.

Conversely there are cards that you don't like as well so they slow you down.

There's a good chance of getting it in here against AQ, KQ, KK, AA and plenty of flush draws.

If you're getting his stack it's just as likely now as on later streets so just get it in.

problem is how to get it in on flop my open was too big to reopen the betting so i had to call

[EvilPie]

Personally I like to get it in on the flop.

There's a lot of action killers on the turn and river which may lose your customer.

Conversely there are cards that you don't like as well so they slow you down.

There's a good chance of getting it in here against AQ, KQ, KK, AA and plenty of flush draws.

If you're getting his stack it's just as likely now as on later streets so just get it in.

problem is how to get it in on flop my open was too big to reopen the betting so i had to call

Edited my response mate.

I guess you could check hoping that the short stack gets it in but then you look insanely strong when you raise.

Loads of ways to play this and yours isn't too bad at all tbh.

[Ironside]

ok i did it again but i dont think he calls

PokerStars Game #63037562186: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2011/06/06 23:35:04 WET [2011/06/06 18:35:04 ET]
Table '424010421 15' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: FeyeCas (134400 in chips)
Seat 2: Ironside (621037 in chips)
Seat 3: Simpelx (155129 in chips)
Seat 4: DaRoxa (145680 in chips)
Seat 5: new-contras (373333 in chips)
Seat 6: Blondie1989 (329418 in chips)
Seat 8: Terminnature (136455 in chips)
Seat 9: noHuK (127260 in chips)
FeyeCas: posts the ante 700
Ironside: posts the ante 700
Simpelx: posts the ante 700
DaRoxa: posts the ante 700
new-contras: posts the ante 700
Blondie1989: posts the ante 700
Terminnature: posts the ante 700
noHuK: posts the ante 700
new-contras: posts small blind 3500
Blondie1989: posts big blind 7000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
Terminnature: folds
noHuK: folds
FeyeCas: folds
Ironside: raises 7000 to 14000
Simpelx: folds
DaRoxa: folds
new-contras: calls 10500
Blondie1989: calls 7000
*** FLOP *** [ ]
new-contras: checks
Blondie1989: checks
Ironside: bets 28000
new-contras: calls 28000
Blondie1989: folds
*** TURN *** [ ] []
new-contras: checks
Ironside: bets 63000
new-contras: calls 63000
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
new-contras: checks
Ironside: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
new-contras: shows [ ] (high card Ace)
Ironside: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks)
Ironside collected 229600 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 229600 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: FeyeCas folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Ironside showed [ ] and won (229600) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 3: Simpelx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: DaRoxa (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: new-contras (small blind) showed [ ] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 6: Blondie1989 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Terminnature folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: noHuK folded before Flop (didn't bet)

[Ironside]

Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing.

you dont think he can pass river?

[EvilPie]

Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing.

you dont think he can pass river?

Not for that amount.

[Ironside]

Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing.

you dont think he can pass river?

Not for that amount.

so it was a value bet then as if i had bet more i dont get value called

[EvilPie]

ok i did it again but i dont think he calls

PokerStars Game #63037562186: Tournament #424010421, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2011/06/06 23:35:04 WET [2011/06/06 18:35:04 ET]
Table '424010421 15' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: FeyeCas (134400 in chips)
Seat 2: Ironside (621037 in chips)
Seat 3: Simpelx (155129 in chips)
Seat 4: DaRoxa (145680 in chips)
Seat 5: new-contras (373333 in chips)
Seat 6: Blondie1989 (329418 in chips)
Seat 8: Terminnature (136455 in chips)
Seat 9: noHuK (127260 in chips)
FeyeCas: posts the ante 700
Ironside: posts the ante 700
Simpelx: posts the ante 700
DaRoxa: posts the ante 700
new-contras: posts the ante 700
Blondie1989: posts the ante 700
Terminnature: posts the ante 700
noHuK: posts the ante 700
new-contras: posts small blind 3500
Blondie1989: posts big blind 7000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Ironside [ ]
Terminnature: folds
noHuK: folds
FeyeCas: folds
Ironside: raises 7000 to 14000
Simpelx: folds
DaRoxa: folds
new-contras: calls 10500
Blondie1989: calls 7000
*** FLOP *** [ ]
new-contras: checks
Blondie1989: checks
Ironside: bets 28000
new-contras: calls 28000
Blondie1989: folds
*** TURN *** [ ] []
new-contras: checks
Ironside: bets 63000
new-contras: calls 63000
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
new-contras: checks
Ironside: checks
*** SHOW DOWN ***
new-contras: shows [ ] (high card Ace)
Ironside: shows [ ] (a pair of Jacks)
Ironside collected 229600 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 229600 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: FeyeCas folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Ironside showed [ ] and won (229600) with a pair of Jacks
Seat 3: Simpelx folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: DaRoxa (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: new-contras (small blind) showed [ ] and lost with high card Ace
Seat 6: Blondie1989 (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: Terminnature folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: noHuK folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Don't you ever bet/fold rivers?

Nobody's raising worse here but they may call.

You're never getting bluffed but you get more value out of some show down hands that don't want to give up on what's in the middle.

[EvilPie]

Yes it looks fine but this isn't so much a value bet as a cooler really. He's never passing.

you dont think he can pass river?

Not for that amount.

so it was a value bet then as if i had bet more i dont get value called

Not in the way that you are asking for help in this thread.

You're looking for situation where you can bet light and get called by worse.

Here you bet with a big hand and get called by another big hand.

[Ironside]

you not think KQ is a light call on that board?

[Ironside]

Don't you ever bet/fold rivers?

not been able to do this for value  only seem to be able to do this with bluffs