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Amatay
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« on: July 10, 2011, 09:19:19 PM » |
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There is no better feeling than rocking up in a city for the first time, with nowhere to stay and everything new - so liberating.
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boldie
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« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2011, 09:22:52 PM » |
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TBF, something has to be done. (The same for online bookies IMO) Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if it would be something half arsed. |
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Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
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Solaris
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« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2011, 09:44:32 PM » |
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This has all came about because of the US Government.
Fuck America.
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redarmi
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« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2011, 09:48:23 PM » |
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I really don't think anyone has anything to worry about. Regulation doesn't equal prohibition. Chances are they will simply want to ensure that anyone offering services to UK punters passes some kind of probity test which is no bad thing.
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Solaris
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« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2011, 09:54:40 PM » |
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I really don't think anyone has anything to worry about. Regulation doesn't equal prohibition. Chances are they will simply want to ensure that anyone offering services to UK punters passes some kind of probity test which is no bad thing.
Surely the one thing we all fear would come about because of this? Taxation. Or do you think we're a long way from that? |
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redarmi
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« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2011, 10:11:41 PM » |
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It is pretty much impossible to tax unless you change the whole regulation framework of gambling in this country which they have already rehashed twice in the last ten years and even if they did manage to tax in some way it is massively unlikely the firms would be able to pass it on to the punters.
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Junior Senior
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2011, 10:24:49 PM » |
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What's the problem? Don't see anything in there to worry about
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outragous76
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2011, 10:30:30 PM » |
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the "problem" is that something which requires a simple solution wont get one
govt's dont miss an opportunity to get there pound of flesh
they will tax the sites, they will pass it on
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".....and then I spent 2 hours talking with Stu which blew my mind.........."
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redarmi
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2011, 10:53:24 PM » |
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I just don't see how this can happen tbh. The companies don't have any need to have any presence here and the only veto that they UK govt have is on advertising in this country and the way they get around that is to give "white list" status to approved jurisdictions but they know that in all reality they have no veto in this day and age. I worked for Victor Chandler when we were the first sportsbook to go offshore and basically stop paying tax and spent literally days with barristers and lawyers going over the reprecussions and basically the advice we had then was that we were totally able to avoid British taxation but the only potential issue was advertising and even then electronic advertising didn't fall under the remit. That si why the Uk established the white list in the first place because they were pretty much unable to control any other way and at least through that they could impose their regulatory standards on other jurisdictins that saw the UK as a decent marketplace therefore protecting the UK consumer.
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doubleup
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2011, 11:57:03 PM » |
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I just don't see how this can happen tbh. The companies don't have any need to have any presence here and the only veto that they UK govt have is on advertising in this country and the way they get around that is to give "white list" status to approved jurisdictions but they know that in all reality they have no veto in this day and age. I worked for Victor Chandler when we were the first sportsbook to go offshore and basically stop paying tax and spent literally days with barristers and lawyers going over the reprecussions and basically the advice we had then was that we were totally able to avoid British taxation but the only potential issue was advertising and even then electronic advertising didn't fall under the remit. That si why the Uk established the white list in the first place because they were pretty much unable to control any other way and at least through that they could impose their regulatory standards on other jurisdictins that saw the UK as a decent marketplace therefore protecting the UK consumer.
You are correct in all this, but since the whitelist etc, France for one has managed to get a law past the EU authorities that allows them to take action against companies that don't have a French license. All the horse owning fraternity are moaning about the dire prize money in the uk and looking across the channel where the French are fleecing the punters to pay for much higher prize money. So I think that the change is going to be "must have a uk license to market service to uk customers" and how they define "market" presumably depends on the reaction of the big bookies. Also this review has been going on for a while - the FTP thing im sure just means the Grauniad asked the govt about it and got the "we are looking into it response". |
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neeko
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« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2011, 12:33:23 AM » |
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The govt wont change the taxation of gambling for the punter as more lose than win - so there is more losers than winners so no point taxing winners as more people would come foward as losers and make it a net losing position for the inland revenue.
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DaveShoelace
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« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2011, 08:06:30 AM » |
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The majority of the stuff coming from the Culture secretaries office has been much more about not letting operators not on the UK white list to advertise in this country without paying a premium, not much about actually taxing punters or existing white listed operators. It will probably come up too, I think ultimately that's the way this is headed, but right now its much more about regulating overseas operators and the advertising.
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« Last Edit: July 11, 2011, 08:09:39 AM by DaveShoelace »
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2011, 10:17:33 AM » |
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"It is pretty much impossible to tax unless you change the whole regulation framework of gambling in this country which they have already rehashed twice in the last ten years and even if they did manage to tax in some way it is massively unlikely the firms would be able to pass it on to the punters."
The UK firms already get taxed via betting duty and they don't pass it on.
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DungBeetle
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« Reply #13 on: July 11, 2011, 10:19:37 AM » |
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"The govt wont change the taxation of gambling for the punter as more lose than win - so there is more losers than winners so no point taxing winners as more people would come foward as losers and make it a net losing position for the inland revenue."
Correct - that is why at present betting duty effectively taxes punters' losses. The Revenue know which way round they want to be.
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AlunB
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« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2011, 10:44:59 AM » |
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The majority of the stuff coming from the Culture secretaries office has been much more about not letting operators not on the UK white list to advertise in this country without paying a premium, not much about actually taxing punters or existing white listed operators. It will probably come up too, I think ultimately that's the way this is headed, but right now its much more about regulating overseas operators and the advertising.
Not sure I quite understand this. Companies not on the white list can't advertise in the UK, that's the whole point of the white list isn't it? Or have I misunderstood what you're trying to say. Personally I think as someone noted above the main impetus for this was France and Italy making the UK look a bit daft and outdated in their approach to regulation. Nobody of any significance has even applied for a UK licence. Why bother when it gives you no advantage? So of course they are miising out on a load of lovely tax revenue. Mmmmm tax. |
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