Limp-Calling...

[Herr Someone]

Hello the lot of you!

Right, limp-calling.  I feel this is pretty weak, but it seems everyone at micro limit does this.  First question is...

1) Limping - a weak way to play no?  We all know this - especially in late positions.  Usually you would attribute one face card, possibly suited, or some kind of connecting hand...however....

2) Limp-Calling - ...is it still feasible to attribute these kinds of hands to a player making a limp-call move?

To me, there are three levels to their play : Limping, Limp-Calling, Raising.  Raising is easy to digest because it doesn't happen too much so you can narrow their range down to premium hands.  Limping is harder, and depending on the player, they could be limping only their premiums if super-tight, or (more likely) the faces and connectors.

So where does that leave limp-calling?  Are they really hands that aren't strong enough to re-raise with yet too good to fold (Broadways, small pairs, high-mid suited connectors)?  Are these the same hands that they would limp in with?

What is the passive players mentality behind limp-calling?  Will they limp in with anything with post flop value (we should probably invent a new term for this - something like 'angling'), and then call any raise and treat it as an expensive limp?  Or is this line simply their three-bet play and indicates strength?

So far, I'm of the impression that anything they will limp with they will call with so I should tread carefully and expect either to be WAWB or facing a solid draw from their marginal holdings.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

[outragous76]

i havent open limped since 2008

[Herr Someone]

You should have one of those signs saying "No Open Limps Since 1095 days".

Im seeing this a lot on the tables I'm playing though, and I'm struggling to ascertain what it means.  So far I'm thinking 'weak', but not much else so that's why I ask.

Well done btw, for staying on the wagon for so long.

[millidonk]

i havent open limped since 2008

I did it once with 22 utg, seven to the flop i didn't hit quacktastic, i then went and had a cold shower because i felt soooooooo dirty.

[redarmi]

It is generally pretty horrible but don't fall into the trap of thinking that, at the levels you play, that people are doing it with a defined, weak, range.  Plenty of bad players will open limp hands like AJs, 99.

[boldie]

If you can limp with it you can raise with it.

[millidonk]

If you can limp with it you can raise with it.

"limp with it, raise with it".................sang to the tune of "ean wit it, rock wit it"

for any who don't know what that sounds like.

[boldie]

Well said, homey

[giveyourcash]

I limp an enormous range in live poker on the button in the cutoff and even the hijack in the right situations. I am 100% convinced that limping this range (and therefore having to limp call a fair amount of raises) is +EV compared to raising that range and even compared to raising a tighter range. It's massively exploitable but people generally don't exploit it.

[pleno1]

open limp? or limp behind?

[giveyourcash]

open limp? or limp behind?

Both

[boldie]

open limp? or limp behind?

Both

Open limp on the button? What's your range for that? And why is that +EV compared to raising 2.5x BB?

[Whollyflush]

Not sure about ring games, but there are a number of top players who limp the btn when playing HU (Gus Hansen and David Benefield spring to mind).

[strak33]

Books say dont do it , most regs etc will say dont do it.

Just do what you want and hopefully have money at the end

[giveyourcash]

open limp? or limp behind?

Both

Open limp on the button? What's your range for that? And why is that +EV compared to raising 2.5x BB?

Maybe I wasn't super clear, I'm still open raising a large range on the button but I'm also limping (more often limping along than open limping) a bunch of hands that I'm not raising with. Obviously this applies very specifically to certain types of live cash games but I'm pretty sure that limping with say   on the button is superior to both raising with it and folding it.

This obviously assumes you have a pretty large post flop edge.