ITT I get owned at UKIPT

[Pinchop73]

Ok, took a shot last Friday, missed completely obv.

I wish to receive maximum flaming in this thread. But it would be nice for some constructive criticism too as well as the obligatory 'what a cock!' chants. This hand has been eating me up inside ever since Friday, and I feel I have to release it, hopefully I can learn something. (please?!)

Entered UKIPT Brighton.

Decent enough table, couple guys I've played before, couple scandi's, and some unknowns.

I feel happy, until I hit a horrible run of nasty cards that decimated my stack down to 6.8k by the 4th level.

This young villain, a Norwegian, is wearing a UKIPT Manchester satellite tshirt. He's sat on 19k. Has been very active at the table so far. Has taken lots of pots pre with 3+4b getting through.
Has had a 5b called from the bb in a bvb war. Has cbet the flop, then checked the turn and river down. At showdown he presented 84o, mucking once the bb shows 99. He did hit his 4 on the flop in fairness.
The only other pot worth noting, was when he cold 4bet out of the BB, original 3bettor shoves on him, and he snaps with AA, which holds against AKo, hence the large amount of chips in front of him.

Level 4 (100/200)

Folds round to H/J (villain), raises to 525.

Folds to me in the BB, with   .

I call.

Flop   (pot 1150)

I lead 600.

He raises to 1500.

I call.

Turn   (pot 4150)

I check.

He bets, all in.

?

[Pinchop73]

My thoughts. (Yes, I did actually think somewhat during the hand!)

Ok so I'm starting the hand with 33bb's.

Now with this guy being so very active pre flop I didn't really want to 3b/c with KJss, but I did feel I would be able to outplay him post with my decent equity holdings, even though I'm oop, so I elect to flat.

I lead the flop, knowing I'm getting it in at some point. When he comes back over the top I'm happy calling, setting up a c/r all in on the turn.

It's his turn overbet shove that catches me out.

I'm like wtf?!?

Is he just reading me as super weak? Or has he genuinely hit this flop, HARD?

To me his range is so superwide still that he could have anything, for me its very tricky trying to evaluate what range of cards he takes this line with that I beat.

I'm openly admitting that I got owned in this spot, at least give me some credit for being honest!
No, you still think I'm a retard? Ok.

[EvilPie]

Check this flop 100% of the time against this villain.

You're usually winning here but there's no need to boost the pot and give him the opportunity to put you to such a big decision.

If you want to play for stacks there'll be opportunities on the turn or river anyway.

As played I have to call here. There's enough draws out there for him to be jamming with one of them.

If he's got a monster made hand I'm pretty sure he checks back the turn to let you fire any missed draws you may have on the river.

[DMorgan]

Pretty happy about calling here. I like the lead on a dry-ish flop vs this guy, he's gunna bluff raise a ton because I doubt he'll ever expect you to lead a hand as strong as this.

[Junior Senior]

fold pre.

hate the lead

and he's totally reckonised your option on the turn and outplayed you.

in deed sir, you were schooled.

[JK]

Do we never 3ball call vs described villain?

[EvilPie]

Do we never 3ball call vs described villain?

On the flop or pre?

Or do you mean barrel the turn? Could look a bit floaty and induce the jam.

[SuuPRlim]

3b call could be ok but i think might be a bit spewy.

Really depends if he is a thinking aggro or a monkey spewbox aggro, sound like he might be a bit of both. If he is thinking then he prolly realizes your range to donk/call is pretty dam strong so if he has a set or AK then he's figured out you're not planning on folding, or he has a hand like  and is trying to force you off a hand like you have....idk I actually think his range is going to be strong here.

not sure you got owned as such or if you played it even that badly, it's not that easy a spot imo, and i can't really decide what i would have done different either, perhaps vs this guy c/r really small and call off OTF?

[mondatoo]

My thoughts. (Yes, I did actually think somewhat during the hand!)

Ok so I'm starting the hand with 33bb's.

Now with this guy being so very active pre flop I didn't really want to 3b/c with KJss, but I did feel I would be able to outplay him post with my decent equity holdings, even though I'm oop, so I elect to flat.

I lead the flop, knowing I'm getting it in at some point. When he comes back over the top I'm happy calling, setting up a c/r all in on the turn.

It's his turn overbet shove that catches me out.
I'm like wtf?!?

Is he just reading me as super weak? Or has he genuinely hit this flop, HARD?

To me his range is so superwide still that he could have anything, for me its very tricky trying to evaluate what range of cards he takes this line with that I beat.

I'm openly admitting that I got owned in this spot, at least give me some credit for being honest!
No, you still think I'm a retard? Ok.

It's not that much of an overbet is it ? It's effectively 4775 into 4150. I call here vs this villain. I like the donk bet also.

[DMorgan]

If he is thinking then he prolly realizes your range to donk/call is pretty dam strong

I disagree with this - I think he can reasonably expect that the donk bettor never has better than one pair so hero pretty much has the top of his range here. I can't imagine that villain would ever give credit for hero leading a set here when hero expects to be cbet into a huge %age of the time. Donking big hands on dryish boards vs an aggro player in position is a beautiful line if you think that you're getting bluff raised a lot, so I really like the donk bet.

The other great thing is that most good aggro guys just aren't ever going to give you credit for a big hand so they can definitely bluff and thin semi bluff the lot to get you off whatever hand you have from your extremely capped range. From villains point of view for him turn jam not to get through he has to be heroed by one pair so he's gunna put it in all day long

[SuuPRlim]

If he is thinking then he prolly realizes your range to donk/call is pretty dam strong

I disagree with this - I think he can reasonably expect that the donk bettor never has better than one pair so hero pretty much has the top of his range here. I can't imagine that villain would ever give credit for hero leading a set here when hero expects to be cbet into a huge %age of the time. Donking big hands on dryish boards vs an aggro player in position is a beautiful line if you think that you're getting bluff raised a lot, so I really like the donk bet.

The other great thing is that most good aggro guys just aren't ever going to give you credit for a big hand so they can definitely bluff and thin semi bluff the lot to get you off whatever hand you have from your extremely capped range. From villains point of view for him turn jam not to get through he has to be heroed by one pair so he's gunna put it in all day long

yh i think i mis-said what i meant - what i meant is I expect this villain to put us on a capped range, with good Kings being towards the top, I think when we peel the flop 3bet he's expecting us to always be towards the top of that range and then can value own us on the turn before any scary cards come.

I can't quite bring myself to like the donk bet here, although I agree that vs aggro villains its a lovely line to donk hands towards the top of your range on kind of dry boards, but with the top card being a KING I think makes a big difference in that we pretty much never have AK, and villains have only one overpair to credibly rep, and club draws are the only hands he will semi-bluff. if it was 9 or T high id abso love us donking KT...

So ^^^ is what i meant when i said I reckon he;s going to be strong here, I reckon he has a pretty wide range in general and plenty of bluffs and semi bluffs but I can;t quite see it in this EXACT spot.

I assume the guy had AA form the tone of the thread?

[Pinchop73]

Yeah idk, my thought process during the hand was skewed much more towards Dave's thoughts not Dan's. Many thanks for your input guys.

I figured that he must realise I have a made hand once I call the flop, so I figured that he really wanted me to call. I couldn't envisage him taking this line with a flush draw, such a high variance line so early on in a long tournament.

So I tucked my balls in and folded.

I virtually begged him to show me the bluff as I folded. After a bit of persuasion, he showed me the  , saying 'I'm pretty sure I was ahead'.

I guess he was on the nut flush draw, and presumed I was on a weaker flush draw. Either that or I guess I was chopping.

There we go. I ended up restealing AI from the SB with my 20bbs with KQs, for the OR to snap as he'd woken up with AA...again. gg me

[DMorgan]

After a bit of persuasion, he showed me the  , saying 'I'm pretty sure I was ahead'.

 

[KarmaDope]

Here I want to shove over the flop raise of our donk.

Live I'd be a pussy and fold.

[SuuPRlim]

Yeah idk, my thought process during the hand was skewed much more towards Dave's thoughts not Dan's. Many thanks for your input guys.

I figured that he must realise I have a made hand once I call the flop, so I figured that he really wanted me to call. I couldn't envisage him taking this line with a flush draw, such a high variance line so early on in a long tournament.

So I tucked my balls in and folded.

Whoaaaaaa nelly!

I wouldnt ever fold once I've taken this line OTF, I just meant that I'm not a fan of the line given a few variables surrounding this spot specifically, taking the flop line to then fold the turn is prolly the nut low way to play the hand sorry to say

also i doubt you got owned, he sounds like a complete monkey, I think you owned yourself.