J9 late pos

[craiggg999]

Hi,  this is my 1st post on Blonde...hopefully it will make sense! Playing last night in a £40 freezeout at my local club, folds round to me in the cut off and i am sitting on around 35k, i have  , blinds are 500-1000 with a running 100 ante. I open to 2075, and get called by the SB only, who is a very loose eastern european player, often seen check raising players with complete air and previously shown a bluff in around 60% of pots that have gone to showdown. Flop comes  , i C bet for 2825, which he snap makes it 9k ....thoughts on where you would take the hand now please....

[outragous76]

check back flop

fold now

[zerofive]

Probably not cbetting this flop.

[Skippy]

Probably not cbetting this flop.

Why not?

As played, I'm folding now. You have 0 equity, so you'll need to bluff him to win, and that's probably not possible.

[zerofive]

Probably not cbetting this flop.

Q. Why not?

A. You have 0 equity, so you'll need to bluff him to win, and that's probably not possible.

[redarmi]

Agree with all the above.  i check back the flop and fold now as played.  Fwiw I think you should bet bigger preflop.  Maybe something like 2400-2500 because taking this down preflop is always going to be a good result.

[craiggg999]

Its an extremely dry board though to check back...a C bet should get through like 80% of the time IMO, hes calling with Q7 Q8 pre etc, and hes going to just check fold a lot of the time. I just think that for him to raise me shows its virtually impossible for him to have the 10 as at this sort of standard, he would just check call to trap me! For this reason, i made it 16450 to go, leaving myself around 15k which he snap went all in, leading to my sighhh and muck

[outragous76]

Its an extremely dry board though to check back...a C bet should get through like 80% of the time IMO, hes calling with Q7 Q8 pre etc, and hes going to just check fold a lot of the time. I just think that for him to raise me shows its virtually impossible for him to have the 10 as at this sort of standard, he would just check call to trap me! For this reason, i made it 16450 to go, leaving myself around 15k which he snap went all in, leading to my sighhh and muck

Read your own OP - why do you think this villain will fold any holding to a c/o raise?

You have zero equity in this hand as it stands - you know he likes to c/r OOP so dont give him teh opportunity. Your hand has good back door potential and can catch a pair - just get there and make him pay you!

[zerofive]

Its an extremely dry board though to check back...a C bet should get through like 80% of the time IMO, hes calling with Q7 Q8 pre etc, and hes going to just check fold a lot of the time. I just think that for him to raise me shows its virtually impossible for him to have the 10 as at this sort of standard, he would just check call to trap me! For this reason, i made it 16450 to go, leaving myself around 15k which he snap went all in, leading to my sighhh and muck

Perhaps I'm giving villain too much credit here, but he's probably aware that it's difficult for you to have a T here as well. Also if you think he is folding 80%, then he can't be checkraising with air all that frequently. I'm not saying don't cbet this guy, just not with this hand on this flop, 'cause as Skippy says we have a big fat 0 equity. Wait until we have a hand that can beat air.

[JK]

Zerofive owned this thread

[redarmi]

C-betting here is just putting yourself in such a difficult spot because such a massive part of his range can reraise and hardly any of your range can call.  Most players can probably c/r here with any decent ace, any six, any pair and a fair bit of complete air as well as a ten.  In fact I am struggling to think of a hand where the optimal line would be to lead out...A decent player would/could do it with a ten I suppose.

[craiggg999]

My point is I know his range is so wide here, hence the reason I have 4 bet him putting him in a spot where the only way he can really shove is with a 10 which is unlikely or with 66? Do you not agree that the 4 bet is my only option once he has check raised me??

[zerofive]

I would say 4bet is absolutely not an option here.

[muckthenuts]

My point is I know his range is so wide here, hence the reason I have 4 bet him putting him in a spot where the only way he can really shove is with a 10 which is unlikely or with 66? Do you not agree that the 4 bet is my only option once he has check raised me??

Yeah i get what you're saying that he isn't really repping anything, but would you really 4bet AA or Tx for value here or would you peel? I think you''d call.

[SuuPRlim]

thing about this board is you actually rep a far wider range of value hands by checking than you do betting, hands like AK/88 etc you can rep a lot easier by chking. chk back and bet turn would prolly be my line.

The flop 3bet is exactly the same as his c/r as you're value range is EXTREMELY thin, I think you'd actually rep way more by floating his c/r.