PLO - What you doing with WHAT? :)

[SuuPRlim]

Yo!

not really soliciting advice as such as but thought as there has been some PLO talk drumming up in the last week or so on here I'd put a few things out for discussion that I've been working on this week

This SPOT here.

Hand Information
 No Limit Omaha, 1 BB (6 handed).
Hand History converter courtesy of pokerhandreplays.com

Table Information
Seat:  1 klakenurpo ($103.38)
Seat:  3 xxjackpotxxx ($630.16)
Seat:  5 lizbear ($121.73) Dealer
Seat:  6 Hero ($102.4) Small Blind
Seat:  8 blublugrzh ($0) Big Blind
Seat:  10 frozen30 ($114.06)
Dealt to Hero
    

Preflop  (Pot:1.5)
xxjackpotxxx    POST    $1.5
klakenurpo    RAISE    $5
xxjackpotxxx    FOLD   
lizbear    RAISE    $18
Hero    ??



Now you'll notice we have an unusual hand, ofc we didn't really get dealt   (the hole hand is pretty much fake, but that's not relevant lol)

UTG is a known fish, playing 68/38 with no positional discrepancy with his opening range. He folds to 3bets rarely.
The 3better "Lizbear" is a weak regular who has an 11% 3bet, (18% 3bet vs steal) and a 26% fold to 3bet.

We are the Hero, and find ourselves with the following hands.

1)  
2)  
3)  

What would you're play be in these spots and why?

(please steer away from 1) do X, 2) do y, 3) do x, lets try and get some discusssssssssions going)

[TheFallen]

id just fold all 3 probably as I think Lizbear rarely folds to a jam (or w/e pot is) unless he has very bad AK/AQxx or maybe bad QQxx as he will assume u have aces and there is decent dead money in there. So i doubt we have much fold equity and also there are times when we're crushed (like if we 3b the AK and run into AA/KK)

also utg is fishy and doesn't differentiate position etc so how much fold equity will there even be there. some of those type just close eyes and go with whatever their holding. If he calls then there is even almost no chance Liz folds a non ace high hand. If we get it in with any of these hands  vs. 2 people then we are pretty much blocked, crushed and dominated a lot.


if i had to i'd shove 1), 3), 2) in that order.

id rather shove AA/KK (obv) ; better runs and possibly stuff like A567ds


is heros s/n outed? (table with jackpot and lizbear = wiiiiii)

[SuuPRlim]

you'd fold AK97dbl but would be tempted to jam A567dbl? 

I wasn't playing in this hand, but I know jackpot well, he's an interesting character

[GreekStein]

you'd fold AK97dbl but would be tempted to jam A567dbl? 

I wasn't playing in this hand, but I know jackpot well, he's an interesting character

Do you know Jackpot personally Dave?

I'm fine with calling hands 1 and 3 but folding 2.

[SuuPRlim]

i dont him IRL. but have tons and tons of history with him.

I actually like the way he plays, got some pretty terrible leaks mind.

Interested in everyone's thoughts on hand 2

[GreekStein]

Hand 2 plays badly against his range imo. I can't see an argument FOR calling.  We're gonna lose loads with hand 2

[SuuPRlim]

Hand 2 plays badly against his range imo. I can't see an argument FOR calling.  We're gonna lose loads with hand 2

the nut hand of the 3 to go all in with no?

[GreekStein]

Hand 2 plays badly against his range imo. I can't see an argument FOR calling.  We're gonna lose loads with hand 2

the nut hand of the 3 to go all in with no?

No I don't agree. I think if we shove we're putting too much emphasis on having an Ace and King in our hand (meaning he's less likely to have AA or KK). I wouldn't be inclined to shove any of those hands in that spot.

[EvilPie]

Are we really deep enough to be calling with any of them?

Hand 3 obviously has some decent set flopping potential but the others you're calling purely hoping to hit a draw.

Obviously depends entirely on Lizbear's range. If we can narrow the 3 bet down to meaning AAxx or KKxx then I like either hand 1 or 3.

Hand 2 plays pretty terribly against anything he may have. What would you like him to have if this were our hand?

[TheFallen]

i dont like calling 1) since we will just flop dominated draws oop and also the likely action on an AT8 or K82cc flop is going to be check, check, bet which leaves us with a decision with osmeone to act behind.

of any of them calling the 7788 seems best but still im still not doing it unless lizbear is like never ever 4betting which seems unlikely

[Q8Holds]

1]call
2]fold
3]call

[SuuPRlim]

1]call
2]fold
3]call

(please steer away from 1) do X, 2) do y, 3) do x, lets try and get some discusssssssssions going)

[TheFallen]

keep us in suspense Suup. I'm intrigued where this is going

[Rod]

OK I will give it a go.
 
Hand 1 - I find myself wanting to call. I am not sure how good of an idea it is to put in one fifth of my stack with this hand though. I am really hoping to flop a straight and I am not going to do this often enough (or flop a stong enough draw) to want to get it in on the flop. If I am deeper I definately want to call and play the flop but I feel I am putting too much of my stack in to make the call here. Even if I do make my straight then there is no guantee that he is stacking off to me. So we should fold right?
 
Hand 2 - I am going to fold, it looks like two hold 'em hands to me not a good PLO hand? If I am continuing I would rather shove/4-Bet but feel that I am likely to get called and be dominated. I probably fold rather than 4-bet.
 
Hand 3 - Call. I believe I am about 4/1 to make a set with this hand and I have some st8 draw possiblities as well. I think I think I would prefer the call but that might be because I play micro stake PLO and very rarely do people fold to 4-bets in this situation.

I think hands 1 and 3 play pretty well on the flop (even though I was folding hand 1) and if you end up getting it in on the flop you are likely to do so with good equity as if you bet out on the right flop you might well get raised by and overpair and be able to get your money in pretty good or even win it right there with a bet on a decent flop.

If we did flop good with either of these hands (say a pair and a straight draw or even a set) what should we do, just make a bet there and then or do a CRAI and commit him to the hand? I think I prefer the bet unless we flop the stone cold nuts (ie quads or something) because if we try to CRAI we might end up giving him a free card?

[TheFallen]

OK I will give it a go.
 
Hand 1 - I find myself wanting to call. I am not sure how good of an idea it is to put in one fifth of my stack with this hand though. I am really hoping to flop a straight and I am not going to do this often enough (or flop a stong enough draw) to want to get it in on the flop. If I am deeper I definately want to call and play the flop but I feel I am putting too much of my stack in to make the call here. Even if I do make my straight then there is no guantee that he is stacking off to me. So we should fold right?
 
Hand 2 - I am going to fold, it looks like two hold 'em hands to me not a good PLO hand? If I am continuing I would rather shove/4-Bet but feel that I am likely to get called and be dominated. I probably fold rather than 4-bet.
 
Hand 3 - Call. I believe I am about 4/1 to make a set with this hand and I have some st8 draw possiblities as well. I think I think I would prefer the call but that might be because I play micro stake PLO and very rarely do people fold to 4-bets in this situation.

I think hands 1 and 3 play pretty well on the flop (even though I was folding hand 1) and if you end up getting it in on the flop you are likely to do so with good equity as if you bet out on the right flop you might well get raised by and overpair and be able to get your money in pretty good or even win it right there with a bet on a decent flop.

If we did flop good with either of these hands (say a pair and a straight draw or even a set) what should we do, just make a bet there and then or do a CRAI and commit him to the hand? I think I prefer the bet unless we flop the stone cold nuts (ie quads or something) because if we try to CRAI we might end up giving him a free card?

nice post. And i think u hit the nail on the head wrt leading any flop you hit well enough to stack off on