War Criminal?

[redarmi]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court

this is also a bit of an issue for me (Though I understand the Americans' reasoning behind it)

Noamh Chomsky good reading on this stuff!

I would have laid a very big price that you would ever have posted that sentence jjandellis ;-)

[boldie]

Obv you're right, Iron. However, when a war is "illegal" to begin with any death that follows from that war could surely be seen as a crime?

[Ironside]

IF the envolement of NATO.forces in Libya is deemed illegal then your right Cameron would be a war criminal but there is more chance me winning the lottery this weekend than that

[boldie]

IF the envolement of NATO.forces in Libya is deemed illegal then your right Cameron would be a war criminal but there is more chance me winning the lottery this weekend than that

Of course it's not going to be found illegal. In the same way that the war in Iraq won't be found to be illegal anytime soon...that doesn't make it legal within the narrow perimeters we have all been told exist though. The "war" in Libya has always been called a "humanitarian" excercise..everyone knows it's about throwing Ghadaffi out, but they can't say that because that would be illegal. Noone will be held accountable for it as the main countries involved in the effort happen to be two of the most  important countries in the UN. You can be pretty sure that if people were to rise up in Ghana (Random name pick) and Ivory Coast sent in troops supporting them the UN would have something to say about it though.

[ManuelsMum]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court

this is also a bit of an issue for me (Though I understand the Americans' reasoning behind it)

Noamh Chomsky good reading on this stuff!

I would have laid a very big price that you would ever have posted that sentence jjandellis ;-)

Haha...I know. The idealist in me likes him, however the realist usually wins over.  I have to say he is amazing in how he uncovers untruths and how he conveys his thoughts. I'd love to sit in on one of his lectures, but he's sold out solid when he comes over the UK. Would be lovely if we could follow this guys vision, but I believe if we did it'd bite us massively in the arse.  The way I tend to see it is that the world's not a fair place and fortunately we (were?) are at the top of the pile.  Some of those we'd love to give more rights to, wouldn't hesitate in wiping us out if they got the chance IMO.

All very nice for Blair/Bush to free the Iraqi people of that bad bad man Saddam - but he was our bad man, keeping lots of 'orrible little monsters in place (much the way Tito did in FRY). Well done Blair/Bush, gg...

I quite agree with what you say at the end there so....
Is it really right for a 19 year old to go to his death to 'fight for his country' in such a ridiculous setup. Go to help us limit terrorism. End up amplifying it.
Dulce et decorum est.

[highmile]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_and_the_International_Criminal_Court

this is also a bit of an issue for me (Though I understand the Americans' reasoning behind it)

Noamh Chomsky good reading on this stuff!

I would have laid a very big price that you would ever have posted that sentence jjandellis ;-)

Haha...I know. The idealist in me likes him, however the realist usually wins over.  I have to say he is amazing in how he uncovers untruths and how he conveys his thoughts. I'd love to sit in on one of his lectures, but he's sold out solid when he comes over the UK. Would be lovely if we could follow this guys vision, but I believe if we did it'd bite us massively in the arse.  The way I tend to see it is that the world's not a fair place and fortunately we (were?) are at the top of the pile.  Some of those we'd love to give more rights to, wouldn't hesitate in wiping us out if they got the chance IMO.

All very nice for Blair/Bush to free the Iraqi people of that bad bad man Saddam - but he was our bad man, keeping lots of 'orrible little monsters in place (much the way Tito did in FRY). Well done Blair/Bush, gg...

I quite agree with what you say at the end there so....
Is it really right for a 19 year old to go to his death to 'fight for his country' in such a ridiculous setup. Go to help us limit terrorism. End up amplifying it.
Dulce et decorum est.

Absolutely right....but be careful, I was accused of being a troll for making exactly the same point on the 'Ambush' thread!

[highmile]

Let an unelected 'leader' instruct his forces to shoot unarmed civilians who dare to peacefully protest against him? Stand back and do nothing for them?

So why aren't we in Syria? Zimbabwe? China? etc.?

And whilst we are at it, would you then support foreign bombing of UK miltary personnel after Bloody Sunday in Ulster circa 1970?

Strange that someone who comes across as very anti British government should use Bloody Sunday as a case to make their point and yet refer to NI as Ulster. no?

Geo

anti British Government or anti their world crusade at my/our expense whilst they plead poverty when it comes to looking after their own?

and the location where the Bloody Sunday massacre took place was in NI which is a major part of Ulster but not all of it.....or have I got that bit wrong?

Yours and my expense has been paltry compared to some.

It is indeed, however it is strange to hear someone anti British government use the term Ulster

Geo

Mr Geo, you really are going to have to explain this to me, I don't have any agenda and I take each situation as I find it, I am struggling to work out what is wrong with the term 'Ulster'

[Geo the Sarge]

Let an unelected 'leader' instruct his forces to shoot unarmed civilians who dare to peacefully protest against him? Stand back and do nothing for them?

So why aren't we in Syria? Zimbabwe? China? etc.?

And whilst we are at it, would you then support foreign bombing of UK miltary personnel after Bloody Sunday in Ulster circa 1970?

Strange that someone who comes across as very anti British government should use Bloody Sunday as a case to make their point and yet refer to NI as Ulster. no?

Geo

anti British Government or anti their world crusade at my/our expense whilst they plead poverty when it comes to looking after their own?

and the location where the Bloody Sunday massacre took place was in NI which is a major part of Ulster but not all of it.....or have I got that bit wrong?

Yours and my expense has been paltry compared to some.

It is indeed, however it is strange to hear someone anti British government use the term Ulster

Geo

Mr Geo, you really are going to have to explain this to me, I don't have any agenda and I take each situation as I find it, I am struggling to work out what is wrong with the term 'Ulster'

It's fairly simple, most (if not all) anti UK Government Irish Nationalists refuse to use the term Ulster.

Geo

[redarmi]

Ulster is a term primarily used by the Unionist/Protestant community and actually Ulster refers to nine counties in the north of the island of Ireland whereas Northern Ireland only actually consists of six counties.  As such the Nationalist/Catholic community object to the use of the term.

[highmile]

Let an unelected 'leader' instruct his forces to shoot unarmed civilians who dare to peacefully protest against him? Stand back and do nothing for them?

So why aren't we in Syria? Zimbabwe? China? etc.?

And whilst we are at it, would you then support foreign bombing of UK miltary personnel after Bloody Sunday in Ulster circa 1970?

Strange that someone who comes across as very anti British government should use Bloody Sunday as a case to make their point and yet refer to NI as Ulster. no?

Geo

anti British Government or anti their world crusade at my/our expense whilst they plead poverty when it comes to looking after their own?

and the location where the Bloody Sunday massacre took place was in NI which is a major part of Ulster but not all of it.....or have I got that bit wrong?

Yours and my expense has been paltry compared to some.

It is indeed, however it is strange to hear someone anti British government use the term Ulster

Geo

Mr Geo, you really are going to have to explain this to me, I don't have any agenda and I take each situation as I find it, I am struggling to work out what is wrong with the term 'Ulster'

It's fairly simple, most (if not all) anti UK Government Irish Nationalists refuse to use the term Ulster.

Geo

Thank you for the explanation but not being an anti UK Government Irish Nationalist I wouldn't have known that!! I will however reasearch the matter and attempt to find out why this is.

[highmile]

Ulster is a term primarily used by the Unionist/Protestant community and actually Ulster refers to nine counties in the north of the island of Ireland whereas Northern Ireland only actually consists of six counties.  As such the Nationalist/Catholic community object to the use of the term.

OK, I'm probably going to sound stupid here but here goes:

If Ulster is a term referrring to a part of the island that includes parts of Ireland, wouldn't you think that it would be the other way round??? - Why would the Unionist/Protestants not call it Northern Ireland?

[redarmi]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

[highmile]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

[redarmi]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

No.  Unionists use the term all the time....I get the sense sometimes they use it just because they know the nationalists don't like it. 

[highmile]

My understanding is that Unionists don't particularly like the term Northern Ireland (because of the use of the word Ireland) any more than Nationalists do and as such prefer to use Ulster.  Initially when the country was being divided the idea was that all of Ulster would remain British but eventually it was decided that the other three counties were too Nationalist in outlook for that to work

So I could have been a Pro UK Government Unionists and Geo would have also been surprised if I had used the term Ulster?

No.  Unionists use the term all the time....I get the sense sometimes they use it just because they know the nationalists don't like it. 

So Unionists don't like the term but use it all the time to wind up the Nationalists............does that not say something about the Unionists??