Rake : Know your enemy!

[giveyourcash]

Say you're playing a hypothetical 1/2 game with 10% rake up to £7. Lets take some conservative numbers; 20 hands an hour, an average pot size of £50 (for example a raise to £8 with 2 callers a £13 cbet called and no more action), a game that runs from 8pm to 4am.

5 X 20 X 8 = £800

If you sat in a game every single night with a guy who sat down, won £800 and never lost how quickly would you get tired of seeing him? At an 8 handed table that's half a stack per person per night. If you took every day you've played poker and added £100 to your bottom line how much richer would you be?

For a comparison online rake is usually 5% up to $3 (~£2) usually with around 30% rakeback.  I know that casinos have to pay dealers (minimum wage + your money in tips) and wait-staff (minimum wage + your money in tips) and generally have to provide food (at vastly inflated prices) and drinks (sometimes free). I'm sure heating and lighting can get expensive and hell we all want to make a profit. I'm a free market advocate, I'm happy for people to charge what the market will bear, I just feel that in this case consumers are grossly ill informed about the true costs of the product they are purchasing (there's a reason the drop box is hidden under the table). I'm hoping that recreational players (and regs too) start caring more about the rake, realise how much damage it is doing to their bankroll and change the market so that it will no longer bear such a heavy cost.

[outragous76]

play online if these are your concerns?

[kinboshi]

Or just lose all the time.  No rake!!

[smashedagain]

some well made points imo.

[AndrewT]

Live rake is lolbad

Luckily live players are lolololbad, which makes up for it.

[bobAlike]

Hourly sessions FTW

[Skippy]

Say you're playing a hypothetical 1/2 game with 10% rake up to £7. Lets take some conservative numbers; 20 hands an hour, an average pot size of £50 (for example a raise to £8 with 2 callers a £13 cbet called and no more action), a game that runs from 8pm to 4am.

5 X 20 X 8 = £800

If you sat in a game every single night with a guy who sat down, won £800 and never lost how quickly would you get tired of seeing him? At an 8 handed table that's half a stack per person per night. If you took every day you've played poker and added £100 to your bottom line how much richer would you be?

For a comparison online rake is usually 5% up to $3 (~£2) usually with around 30% rakeback.  I know that casinos have to pay dealers (minimum wage + your money in tips) and wait-staff (minimum wage + your money in tips) and generally have to provide food (at vastly inflated prices) and drinks (sometimes free). I'm sure heating and lighting can get expensive and hell we all want to make a profit. I'm a free market advocate, I'm happy for people to charge what the market will bear, I just feel that in this case consumers are grossly ill informed about the true costs of the product they are purchasing (there's a reason the drop box is hidden under the table). I'm hoping that recreational players (and regs too) start caring more about the rake, realise how much damage it is doing to their bankroll and change the market so that it will no longer bear such a heavy cost.

[outragous76]

Say you're playing a hypothetical 1/2 game with 10% rake up to £7. Lets take some conservative numbers; 20 hands an hour, an average pot size of £50 (for example a raise to £8 with 2 callers a £13 cbet called and no more action), a game that runs from 8pm to 4am.

5 X 20 X 8 = £800

If you sat in a game every single night with a guy who sat down, won £800 and never lost how quickly would you get tired of seeing him? At an 8 handed table that's half a stack per person per night. If you took every day you've played poker and added £100 to your bottom line how much richer would you be?

For a comparison online rake is usually 5% up to $3 (~£2) usually with around 30% rakeback.  I know that casinos have to pay dealers (minimum wage + your money in tips) and wait-staff (minimum wage + your money in tips) and generally have to provide food (at vastly inflated prices) and drinks (sometimes free). I'm sure heating and lighting can get expensive and hell we all want to make a profit. I'm a free market advocate, I'm happy for people to charge what the market will bear, I just feel that in this case consumers are grossly ill informed about the true costs of the product they are purchasing (there's a reason the drop box is hidden under the table). I'm hoping that recreational players (and regs too) start caring more about the rake, realise how much damage it is doing to their bankroll and change the market so that it will no longer bear such a heavy cost.

 

lol'd very hard

[giveyourcash]

Say you're playing a hypothetical 1/2 game with 10% rake up to £7. Lets take some conservative numbers; 20 hands an hour, an average pot size of £50 (for example a raise to £8 with 2 callers a £13 cbet called and no more action), a game that runs from 8pm to 4am.

5 X 20 X 8 = £800

If you sat in a game every single night with a guy who sat down, won £800 and never lost how quickly would you get tired of seeing him? At an 8 handed table that's half a stack per person per night. If you took every day you've played poker and added £100 to your bottom line how much richer would you be?

For a comparison online rake is usually 5% up to $3 (~£2) usually with around 30% rakeback.  I know that casinos have to pay dealers (minimum wage + your money in tips) and wait-staff (minimum wage + your money in tips) and generally have to provide food (at vastly inflated prices) and drinks (sometimes free). I'm sure heating and lighting can get expensive and hell we all want to make a profit. I'm a free market advocate, I'm happy for people to charge what the market will bear, I just feel that in this case consumers are grossly ill informed about the true costs of the product they are purchasing (there's a reason the drop box is hidden under the table). I'm hoping that recreational players (and regs too) start caring more about the rake, realise how much damage it is doing to their bankroll and change the market so that it will no longer bear such a heavy cost.

Suggestions?

The recreational players drive the market. No one gives a damn what regs think because they are a drain on the poker economy too. You need a few regs to start games and keep flagging games going but 4 per table will do that just as well as 44 and you'll always be able to find 4 regs. There are two types of losing player, ones who know they lose and are in it for the fun and ones who "about break even". Generally neither care about rake levels in the slightest, the first because they're losing anyway so who cares where it goes and the second because they are generally oblivious. Make the fun guys aware how much longer the good times would roll with a more sensible rake structure, and convince the second that the only reason they're not the superstars they "deserve" to be is because of the rake box (it's only half a lie). If the losing players revolt things will change fast. Fish generally get their way in a poker room (I've never had a table made 9 handed to accommodate me). Just my off the top of the head idea I'm sure other will have better ideas.

[giveyourcash]

I think plenty of people would be surprised to learn how much their hobby costs them. I did laugh though.

[Pyso]

I agree that 10% rake capped at £7 is terrible, but since they changed it my win rate has actually gone up. Which is odd.

I'm not sure there is much we can do about it, but it will be interesting to see if the hypothetical venue you speak of responds to some local competition that has recently introduced much more player friendly rake...

A friend of mine played in Amsterdam recently and the rake there was 10 % UNCAPPED so maybe it isn't so bad after all.

[AndrewT]

Crown Casino in Melbourne has rake and a time charge (something like 10% up to $8 plus $10 per hour)

[GreekStein]

Play in a game thats 5% rake capped at £100. Obv super juicy mega whales in the game and the guys who run it extend credit

[cambridgealex]

**BREAKING NEWS**

Following the flop of the latest Grand Prix, DTDs announces their total overlay for the year is at an astonishing £350,000.

In response, management have decided to halve the rake on all cash games.

[cambridgealex]

Btw I happen to know how much this hypothetical venue makes in rake per hour per 1/2 and 50/1 game and it's not as much as you say it is.