Did i play this bad?

[GreekStein]

Shouldn't we be raise/calling here rather than shipping the lot in and getting him to fold 100% of worse hands?

Icm disaster to call it off here?

This is why ICM sucks.

We raise and get shoved on by worse and have to fold in case we lose.

Alternatively we shove and only get called by better.

Should we be shoving a lot wider here if we're only getting called by AK/AQ and big pairs?

What would we need to raise/call?

Does ICM just force us in to lot's of coolers?

Btw. I understand that ICM is mathematically perfect and all that bollocks but do we get in this spot enough times for the long term EV to ever come in to effect?

Should we just let the big stack have his own way and pummle us in to submission?

We're not gonna raise fold though if we do raise mate.

We dont want him to reshove 23o on us. We just want folds here.

We're not gonna shove wider because then we're increasing our risk of busto which we don't want with the 2 shorties in. We shove AQ cos it's so strong.

So we prefer to raise and win what's there rather than raise and call when he has 23?

That's what I'm getting at.

Also how does raising wider increase our chances of busto if we're only getting called when we're muffed anyway?

exactly, with the payyouts and stacks as they are, we dont wanna be racing even vs a fairly dominated hand.

[EvilPie]

Don't get me wrong I would've shoved in this spot but was interested in any options.

So given same stack sizes imagine for some reason we limp our AQ and our opponent shoves then turns his cards face up.

What do we need him to have for us to call?

If he's got AJ or KQ does ICM still tell us to fold?

[George2Loose]

Don't get me wrong I would've shoved in this spot but was interested in any options.

So given same stack sizes imagine for some reason we limp our AQ and our opponent shoves then turns his cards face up.

What do we need him to have for us to call?

If he's got AJ or KQ does ICM still tell us to fold?

How do you flip cards up online? What a player!!!

[EvilPie]

Don't get me wrong I would've shoved in this spot but was interested in any options.

So given same stack sizes imagine for some reason we limp our AQ and our opponent shoves then turns his cards face up.

What do we need him to have for us to call?

If he's got AJ or KQ does ICM still tell us to fold?

How do you flip cards up online? What a player!!!

Was expecting that from Gatso tbh

Well done for beating him to it.

[George2Loose]

Don't get me wrong I would've shoved in this spot but was interested in any options.

So given same stack sizes imagine for some reason we limp our AQ and our opponent shoves then turns his cards face up.

What do we need him to have for us to call?

If he's got AJ or KQ does ICM still tell us to fold?

How do you flip cards up online? What a player!!!

Was expecting that from Gatso tbh

Well done for beating him to it.

OMG. Take that back!!!

[EvilPie]

Don't get me wrong I would've shoved in this spot but was interested in any options.

So given same stack sizes imagine for some reason we limp our AQ and our opponent shoves then turns his cards face up.

What do we need him to have for us to call?

If he's got AJ or KQ does ICM still tell us to fold?

How do you flip cards up online? What a player!!!

Was expecting that from Gatso tbh

Well done for beating him to it.

OMG. Take that back!!!

No! You're keeping that one forever!

[George2Loose]

Don't get me wrong I would've shoved in this spot but was interested in any options.

So given same stack sizes imagine for some reason we limp our AQ and our opponent shoves then turns his cards face up.

What do we need him to have for us to call?

If he's got AJ or KQ does ICM still tell us to fold?

How do you flip cards up online? What a player!!!

Was expecting that from Gatso tbh

Well done for beating him to it.

OMG. Take that back!!!

No! You're keeping that one forever!

Can we delete posts? MODS?!?! If we don't I'm gonna start randomly sweating at you and calling you mum names

[Rupert]

http://www.holdemresources.net/hr/sngs/icmcalculator.html?action=calculate&bb=20000&sb=10000&ante=200&structure=0.38%2C0.27%2C0.2%2C0.15&s1=55800&s2=152632&s3=39462&s4=232224&s5=659882&s6=&s7=&s8=&s9=

dont think i made any mistakes, clear jam tho

[geordieneil]

I shove all day Greg - I don't think i am ever folding and as discussed the raise is just horrible and put us in a position we don't want to be in...its just a cooler.

[action man]

pussies, raise/call it off and win the comp.

we arent really even locked 3rd, Its a turbo, 1 double from a shorty and a few shoves he has more of us

expect the bb to use the dynamic loads and ship on us really wide, playing devils advocate a bit here

but if we are playing to win the tournament, surely 2.5x/call is just as good as the jam.

If you have been consistently jamming bvb then obv jam, but if not i may R/C.

The thing is in this spot, by shoving with the stack it actually tightens your range up

whereas opening widens it.

If the bb showed any predilection for being overly agg and using the dynamic well, id 2.4/5x call his ass

[alfiesdad]

Its a shove most of the time for me, but occasionaly limp, dependant on bvb dynamic.
This opens up chance of hittin the flop that could get the double up with little risk and if he does RR small pre, there could be some F.E to shove ott.
Plus we can still be called with worse a decent amount of times in this scenario.
In addition folding to his shove pre and losing the extra 10k with the stack sizes as they are makes no difference to folding pre, hence I never fold pre here.

Its not such an easy one given the open shove is very rarely called and ahead,but given he folds most of his pocket pairs which is our prefered scenario, I favour the shove mainly.

Think you can afford missin top spot for once anyhow Greg ;-)