The Next Pope

[kinboshi]

Kin...have you read "how religion has poisoned everything"...interested in your opinion.....the author does not hold back...

You mean "God is Not Great" by Chris Hitchens? Yes, it has pride of place on my bookshelf.  Hitchens is a brilliant writer, thinker, speaker and polemicist.  If you like that book, some of his other stuff is well worth a read.  Also worth checking out videos on youtube and other places, including the debate he had with Tony Blair about whether religion is a force for good or evil in the world.

Hitchens is terminally-ill with cancer (probably not completely unrelated to his love of cigarettes and alcohol), which I'm sure will please many in the religious right.

[redarmi]

Impressive guy Hitchens.  Definitely one of my intellectual heros.  Pretty obviously a decent human being too.  Did you see the thing the other day where a little girl asked at one of his lectures what she should read and he came over at the end and spent five minutes with her giving her a reading list?

[EvilPie]

Is he unwell?

No, he's just sick.

How sick? As in touches small children??? 

Too far... Defo skirting with the idea of a boshi ban

xx

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pope+benedict+child+abuse  and more here:  http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&tbm=nws&q=pope+benedict+child+abuse

He's part of the institutionalised paedophilia within the catholic church.  His obstruction of inquiries, his compliance in ensuring priests who raped young boys not only escaped justice, but were also allowed to continue with their systematic abuse elsewhere when they were moved to a new church is nothing but evil.  Not saying he has raped any boys himself, but he's certainly an accessory to child rape and should be brought to justice for this.

Tim Minchin puts it more eloquently than I ever could:

Definitely NSFW and not safe for those that find swearing is a greater sin than child rape:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN002ejgC6I

 

Is this stuff all proven or is it just people's opinions and internet bollocks?

Through extensive research I've managed to find some stuff that suggest he's not so bad after all.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pope+benedict+nice+guy

[TRIP5]

Would be mildly amusing if Hitchens discovered God now though!!

All religions suck IMO.. abuse is not restriced to the catholic church... It just gets more publicity than for example abuse by a muslim elder... or a jewish rabbi

This pope is not the first to turn a blind eye.. It would be nice to have a new pope that sacked a shit load of the dodgy priests...

Religions cause wars.. even though everybody basically believes in the same thing.. ridiculous!!!

I still think Dick Dawkins is a twat.

xx

[boldie]

More Minchin...genius

[redarmi]

I still think Dick Dawkins is a twat.

I think you are right that Dawkins is a twat but he is also a correct twat which I always find a bit infuriating.

[kinboshi]

Is he unwell?

No, he's just sick.

How sick? As in touches small children??? 

Too far... Defo skirting with the idea of a boshi ban

xx

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pope+benedict+child+abuse  and more here:  http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&tbm=nws&q=pope+benedict+child+abuse

He's part of the institutionalised paedophilia within the catholic church.  His obstruction of inquiries, his compliance in ensuring priests who raped young boys not only escaped justice, but were also allowed to continue with their systematic abuse elsewhere when they were moved to a new church is nothing but evil.  Not saying he has raped any boys himself, but he's certainly an accessory to child rape and should be brought to justice for this.

Tim Minchin puts it more eloquently than I ever could:

Definitely NSFW and not safe for those that find swearing is a greater sin than child rape:  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TN002ejgC6I

 

Is this stuff all proven or is it just people's opinions and internet bollocks?

Through extensive research I've managed to find some stuff that suggest he's not so bad after all.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=pope+benedict+nice+guy

Millions paid out to the victims sort of suggests they are well aware of it.  Also the pope has 'apologised' for the abuse quite a few times (again suggesting that he is aware it has/is happening), but then allows the priests to continue doing their thing.

http://www.google.co.uk/search?num=100&tbm=nws&q=pope+benedict+child+abuse

Did you read any of the articles from that link?

[boldie]

It's a good book

[kinboshi]

Would be mildly amusing if Hitchens discovered God now though!!

All religions suck IMO.. abuse is not restriced to the catholic church... It just gets more publicity than for example abuse by a muslim elder... or a jewish rabbi

This pope is not the first to turn a blind eye.. It would be nice to have a new pope that sacked a shit load of the dodgy priests...

Religions cause wars.. even though everybody basically believes in the same thing.. ridiculous!!!

I still think Dick Dawkins is a twat.

xx

I quite agree that abuse isn't restricted to the catholic church, it's just a shining beacon for it.  As this thread is about the pope/next pope it seemed right to focus on the catholic church.

[kinboshi]

I still think Dick Dawkins is a twat.

I think you are right that Dawkins is a twat but he is also a correct twat which I always find a bit infuriating.

This is very true.  His arguments are compelling, his understanding of evolutionary biology is amongst the best in the world - but he's very old-school, Oxbridge-type professor and some of his personal views reflect this.

[bhoywonder]

Kin...have you read "how religion has poisoned everything"...interested in your opinion.....the author does not hold back...

You mean "God is Not Great" by Chris Hitchens? Yes, it has pride of place on my bookshelf.  Hitchens is a brilliant writer, thinker, speaker and polemicist.  If you like that book, some of his other stuff is well worth a read.  Also worth checking out videos on youtube and other places, including the debate he had with Tony Blair about whether religion is a force for good or evil in the world.

Hitchens is terminally-ill with cancer (probably not completely unrelated to his love of cigarettes and alcohol), which I'm sure will please many in the religious right.

Yeah kin...that's the very one...I'm only a few chapters in....had to put it down for a while and am having an inner debate at whether to continue...

Reason being I realise I can't argue with his thoughts....I'm a lapsed catholic and am of the opinion one day I would return to the church.n if I continue,well I think the door would firmly close,its very powerful stuff...my missus,a Christian read a lil too n had to put it down,I could sense she was feeling subverted....

[redarmi]

Isn't that a good reason to continue?

[kinboshi]

Read and listen to the argument from both sides - and make your mind up then.  Not sure what to recommend on the pro-religion side (I haven't read anything particularly convincing at all), but in the other corner there's the work of quite a few, especially these four: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens - as well as the bible of course . 

If it makes you feel any better (or worse), I was brought up as a catholic, went to a catholic school, etc.

[ManuelsMum]

Would be mildly amusing if Hitchens discovered God now though!!

All religions suck IMO.. abuse is not restriced to the catholic church... It just gets more publicity than for example abuse by a muslim elder... or a jewish rabbi

This pope is not the first to turn a blind eye.. It would be nice to have a new pope that sacked a shit load of the dodgy priests...

Religions cause wars.. even though everybody basically believes in the same thing.. ridiculous!!!

I still think Dick Dawkins is a twat.

xx

I quite agree that abuse isn't restricted to the catholic church, it's just a shining beacon for it.  As this thread is about the pope/next pope it seemed right to focus on the catholic church.

There may be some features of the catholic church which predispose it to having a higher proportion of abusers among its clergy. Many clergy that are getting done now for abuse in their later adulthood, were shoe-horned into seminary before they were teenagers; thus they forewent many of the social processes that allow a development-beyond a childish sexuality that could predispose them to becoming child abusers. Sure, many child abusers didn't have this lacuna, but it's a feature worth examining. Is there a greater proportion of abusers among the clergy than in the normal population? Or is it the same and people expected better of them? The anger probably multiplied by the way it was handled/covered up.
Maybe it's an extreme manifestation of the dynamic that goes on in much of catholicism, the whole manipulation/control thing. Not all sex abuse is about sex, plenty has to do with control. Once you start willingly taking your kids to have their consciences cleansed and brains washed by some fuckwit in a dress, maybe you're asking for trouble...

[bhoywonder]

Read and listen to the argument from both sides - and make your mind up then.  Not sure what to recommend on the pro-religion side (I haven't read anything particularly convincing at all), but in the other corner there's the work of quite a few, especially these four: Richard Dawkins, Daniel Dennett, Sam Harris and Christopher Hitchens - as well as the bible of course . 

If it makes you feel any better (or worse), I was brought up as a catholic, went to a catholic school, etc.

I mean,I know I'm going to finish the book..possibly this week....n absorb it and probably,inevitably swing completely away from my faith upbringing....which it itself us sad,n also a bloody waste of time....

The pro argument usually boils down to....you just have to believe and have faith,n it will all work out. ..end of..     .