Another preflop spot, this time 1/2 cash

[Kilgore_Trout]

If you call and hit the K or Q you could still be miles behind.

If you call and hit the K or Q you could be miles ahead

True, so I think we have to weigh up the possible upside and downside.

On a K-x-x or Q-x-x flop how much of our stack are we happy to get in on flop, turn and river asuming we flat call the 3-bet pre flop?

Personally I don't like my hand that much if the pre flop raiser comes out betting big on these flops. So we hit our hand and still dont know if we really like it or not.

[George2Loose]

If you call and hit the K or Q you could still be miles behind.

If you call and hit the K or Q you could be miles ahead

True, so I think we have to weigh up the possible upside and downside.

On a K-x-x or Q-x-x flop how much of our stack are we happy to get in on flop, turn and river asuming we flat call the 3-bet pre flop?

Personally I don't like my hand that much if the pre flop raiser comes out betting big on these flops. So we hit our hand and still dont know if we really like it or not.

But isn't Alex skilled enough to play the streets and assess whether his hand is good or not?

[StuartHopkin]

Call please, surprised at the amount of variation in the responses. I'm no Alex Goulder, but clear call for me.

[millidonk]

I would rather smash my face through a window than fold for £20, literally.

ha that's how i'd feel.

this

[SuuPRlim]

fold.

you have 12 hours to revoke this comment before I delete you from facebook and skype.

Clock is ticking.

[Leedszilla]

Pretty surprised at a lot of these responses.

You're in position, facing a three bet over a silly open with KQs, with 275BB against an opponent who covers you.

Scenarios if you 4bet:

1. Everyone passes, +£28
2. You get 5bet and have to fold, -£60
3. You get flatted, harder to put a figure on but I think £-60 is probably generous

So, you have to get everyone to pass more than 75% of the time to show a profit.

Alternatively you can flat with a hand with big post-flop potential, whilst deep and in position. The profitability of this largely depends upon your ability not to get stacked with one pair. Given that you're in position, if your opponent leeds a K or Q high flop, your best option will often be to raise one time, as you can very legitimately have AQ, AK, AA, KK, QQ and know if you get called you're well behind, assuming your opponent isn't highly likely to play back at you with air.

Or you can pass for a solid +/- 0.

On this basis it seems to me like 4betting is the worst option, and the decision between passing and flatting largely depends upon how well you and your opponent play deep-stacked post flop and your opponent propensity to make big plays.

[GreekStein]

fold.

you have 12 hours to revoke this comment before I delete you from facebook and skype.

Clock is ticking.

+1

I will never acknowledge you or say BITB again

[SuuPRlim]

So, you have to get everyone to pass more than 75% of the time to show a profit.

this isnt quite whole picture, we need to consider how our equity is effected by a) him calling worse, or b) him folding better, this si range specific to the villain and no but alex can tell us.

if we make it £60 the pot will be £28 so assuming no equity advantage from being called, which there is here we need folds around 45% of the time.

[Leedszilla]

TBH I think losing no more than the original £60 is a pretty generous assumption of what happens when he flats. Bear in mind we're losing another 60 more or less every time the board comes K or Q high, he checks, we're obliged to bet, and get called/raised, as well as passing everytime we make nothing on the flop and he leads, or we check back the flop and he leads. Ok we make a bit of cash when its K or Q high and he flats with JJ and we then check back twice, and we make some good money when we get the odd miracle, but we also lost a good chunk when we make two pair and he shows QQ or KK. All in all, pretty hard to argue we're making money post flop when he's flatted our 4bet OOP.

[SuuPRlim]

TBH I think losing no more than the original £60 is a pretty generous assumption of what happens when he flats. Bear in mind we're losing another 60 more or less every time the board comes K or Q high, he checks, we're obliged to bet, and get called/raised, as well as passing everytime we make nothing on the flop and he leads, or we check back the flop and he leads. Ok we make a bit of cash when its K or Q high and he flats with JJ and we then check back twice, and we make some good money when we get the odd miracle, but we also lost a good chunk when we make two pair and he shows QQ or KK. All in all, pretty hard to argue we're making money post flop when he's flatted our 4bet OOP.

none of this is really an argument for not 4betting. Although I agree flatting is the line i would take

[SuuPRlim]

and welcome to blonde! are you from Leeds btw? we prolly know each other

[Leedszilla]

Yeah you're not wrong, I just think it speaks to why there's more value in flatting, and ta for the welcome! There's a good chance we do know each other, do you play in the Gala much?

[paulhouk03]

If you call and hit the K or Q you could still be miles behind.

If you call and hit the K or Q you could be miles ahead

True, so I think we have to weigh up the possible upside and downside.

On a K-x-x or Q-x-x flop how much of our stack are we happy to get in on flop, turn and river asuming we flat call the 3-bet pre flop?

Personally I don't like my hand that much if the pre flop raiser comes out betting big on these flops. So we hit our hand and still dont know if we really like it or not.

we can hit quads two pairs straights and flushes  and straight flushes
also


they are the hands i aim to hit

[SuuPRlim]

Yeah you're not wrong, I just think it speaks to why there's more value in flatting, and ta for the welcome! There's a good chance we do know each other, do you play in the Gala much?

erm I dont play there much, but I stroll in drunk at 5am and chat to the regs a lot lol (dont judge me ) play at naps a couple of times a week - I'm David anyways, nice to meet/have met you

[giveyourcash]

Flat every time AINEC. You want frankie to overcall as often as possible with whatever nonsense he may have and while kurt is a solid player and will throw a few bluffs and thin bets occasionally he is generally a straightforward player imo. Post you're looking to pot control one pair (to the extent of possibly checking behind flop to go for one or maaaybe 2 streets of value) to make good money you want to be hitting 2P+ and strong draws. Try not to get it in on T 9 X though as you'll be up against a set and will miss. If you're 4 bet folding to make kurt fold JJ just do it with 92o instead of with a hand that plays well in position.