Hero call?

[zerofive]

Live 50/1 game at Dusk. Getting towards the end of the night, stack sizes are pretty big apart from villain in this hand who just lost a big all-in and has reloaded for £200. Is a thinking player by virtue of being an all round intelligent guy, but admits to having a lack of experience. Probably have about 150 hands on the guy, hasn't done anything suicidal, but on several occasions has open mucked when called at showdown after making what looks like a clear value bet, so definitely capable of bluffs in what seem to be good spots just running into a lot of made hands.

I've put the £2 straddle on. Random limps, villain limps and blinds complete, I make it £15 with , villain calls, all else fold.

Flop (£36)

I bet £25 he calls.

Turn (£86)

Check check

River (£86)

I check, he bets £40, I call

Is this river call okay? I felt like I might have butchered the hand in all honesty, but given his line, are we good on this river often enough to make the call? Thought he would definitely bet the turn with all value hands, but not sure how capable he is of going for thin value on this river.

[stato_1]

I dont like pre much, would just check as you are rarely going to get it through, and when you don't you're rarely gonna be in position. Being oop in a large pot with weak Ax isn't too attractive a situation even if they are sooooooooted.

Think I like post flop as played, but it's not a fantastic spot to get urself in

[SuuPRlim]

I just quit making hero calls this year and I'm a lot better off as a result

The question of is the a good calll mathematically then it 100% isnt, if you have some secret reads or info then it may well be a good spot

sometimes its blatenly obvious when its a time to hero someone, but most of the time you just get shown it or something near it, get bluffed once in a while its really no big deal

[DMorgan]

I think you butchered every street to be honest mate :/

As stato said, its gunna be really really hard to show a profit piling it in pre OOP when its very rarely going to get through and nobody likes to fold. My range in this spot in this sort of game is literally gunna be like, TT+, AQo. Absolutely nothing wrong with that against this lineup. These games don't seem to play awfully deep (>200bbs) so you're gunna be able to get stacks in when you flop great equity regardless of whether you raise or check in this spot pre.

From the last few hand histories that you've posted I really think that you're over-thinking preflop spots. Theres really no need to pile in a ton of money pre with these hands that flop great i multiway pots. If villain makes the toppest pair and you make something better, you're getting his money and in these games where everyone is splashing around and nobody folds this is going to be your bread and butter money - not by having balanced ranges preflop, running multi-street bluffs etc. etc.

I know its not cool to be a nit but making elaborate preflop plays like squeezing suited junk and stuff - it looks cool on TV and in tougher games those are the kind of edges you'd have to take but in these spots I think its just a leak. Such a high %age of pots go to showdown that the aim of the game is just to get to showdown with good hands. In more soft, stationy games so much more is going to be at showdown than non-showdown.

/rant

Ok so as played flop is fine but defintiely bet the turn. When you check here you're pretty much surrendering the pot on all non-diamond or ace (maybe king) rivers because once you check this turn he can just check back and call rivers with Qx and Tx. J9 got there and you have diamond blockers, plus a lot of diamond hands either turned a straight draw (which he's likey to bet) or turned/rivered a pair which I think he'll just check back and show down on the river because you look joke weak.

I just don't really see that he can get to the river with much air and especially with his sizing he can just own you hard with like, KT here because by checking the turn you've really capped your range. In his head this translates to "well he doesn't have a queen so i'll just tickle it a little bit" but the result is the same. This is one of not many spots where a fish can legit find a thin value bet and I think his sizing points to that too which kinda makes it a really bad hero spot.

[zerofive]

Sounds about right Dan. Really didn't like this hand after I played it. As I was typing it out I was wincing a little. Debated not even posting it. It's not really like me to get into these preflop spots anymore, I think I was just desperate and did a little jizz when I found an aceball. Think I'm just going to take Dave's approach and remove the hero call from my game.

[pleno1]

shove river?

[rfgqqabc]

No need to talk about pre. River is somewhat interesting, would he bet the turn with JT? Would he bet the river with KT?

I mean i find it somewhat hard to see him betting KT there in a live .5/1 game but its possible. I guess it could be QJ but i cant see why he calls river. Sometimes i'd hero here, but having the  makes flush draws a fair bit less likely. C/R river is obviously a fun idea, but we really dont rep much at all vs hand readers. Sucky spot created by the preflop play

[youthnkzR]

hardly ever winning.. fold.