Clueless

[zerofive]

Live 50/1. Lots of calling, not a lot of anything else. Villain #1 is a bit of a gambler, has probs seen every flop this far. Villain #2 is a weird passive nit who flatted AA pre and check/check/bet in position on 8 3 2 J Q and had just called pre folded flop loads. Gambler is playing £300~, nit around £150~, we just about cover.

Villain #1 is on the straddle, two limpers to villain #2 in MP who calls, button and small blind call, I find in the big blind and make it £19. Villains call, others fold.

Flop (£65)

I bet £42, call, call.

Turn (£191)

Check, check, check.

River (£191)

We??

My initial thought was to shove, but then I realised I didn't like any line.

[DMorgan]

Well I think its a pretty clear bet/fold because even the most retarded of morons isn't going to jam the bare  here and nobody has a boat because for 9x to get past the flop it would have to be the which they obv can't have now. I guess theres a small chance that the guy in the middle can have K9 that but that is the only other possible boat. The probably bets the turn more often than checks too. Its kida hard for them to have many hands that have flush draws in too. Pretty much the best hand they can have that you beat is the occasional or something like Kx8c

Thing is, I don't think that these guys are ever gong to turn a hand like KJ into a bluff ever. So we're looking at a spot where the vast majority of action that we get is from the which would make it a c/f. That being said I don't like to be one to underestimate the power of live fish to find the call button so I prefer a b/f small because their ranges are obv ridic weak. I don't think we're in any danger of accidentally inducing a heroic bluff by betting really small so I'd just flick £50 in and hope someone decides that you're 'trying to nick it' and flicks it in with some sort of Jx type hand.

[cambridgealex]

b/f £50 like the morgan man said.

a milker bet, if you will.

[SuuPRlim]

yup, yup. my thoughts were...

hard for anyone to have a boat (near on imposs for anyone to have a better boat)
only hand that jams includes the
almost impossible to get called by worse
whenever im playing a soft live game and it's impossible to get called by worse I just bet anyway cos because we're often playing against stations with super weak ranges,
bet smallish, like a milker bet

All been covered really - oh and fyl what a horrible board lol, fold pre, run better etc

[SuuPRlim]

i think we can bet a bit bigger than £50 purely because the passive nit is likely to fold and the gambler who has a bigger stack is prolly most likely to keep you honest here, £85 seems like a nice size, it sets the nit all in and it leaves stacks fine to fold to the gambloooooooor, like dan said I wouldnt worry about being bluffed, although getting shown a bluff here would prolly make me wanna smash my head through the table

[pleno1]

check?

every hand that calls/raises (houses + A/10c will bet river) and sometimes even if very rarely they will find a bluff, they are never calling 10xx on the river imo

[smashedagain]

First time I have heard milker bet but I like it. Been milking folks like a dairy cow for years and telling em so. Used to slap em round the chops but obv these days I'm jamming it in their eyes

[zerofive]

check?

every hand that calls/raises (houses + A/10c will bet river) and sometimes even if very rarely they will find a bluff, they are never calling 10xx on the river imo

Do we prefer check-calling over bet-folding?

I think bluffs are such a small portion of their bet when checked to range that I don't mind taking away their air range with a bet. I don't realistically see what bluffs they could possibly show up with. Same goes for anything less than a flush.

My issue is their combined range. The only worse house that shows up is JJ. I don't think there are any 9x hands left since the peels off on the turn. JJ is possible, but so is KK. If nit is calling flop with a club, it's the or , I don't think he's calling two pair on the flop. So he basically has KK/JJ/AcTx +/ATs don't see him calling pree with offsuit KT etc. and nit is not going to bet the river unless he has the nut side of that range, but will likely call it off with all of it.

Gambler can obvs have any two, but even though he likes to call a bunch, he does't seem to be giving it away post - he's just hitting a lot of boards in weird ways. Top and bottom w/ Q7 etc. The difference is I'd expect him to 3ball pre with the top of nits range, and he can basically have any two clubs. Would raise flop with a bad flush imo, because he overall he seems to have the "i don't want to see any more cards" mentality. This is probs crucial info actually, forgot to include it when I was tired and burned last night, maybe it's a given in that he's a gambler at live 50/1. So his calling range on the flop is good flushes/draws. Ac2x-AcJx/TcXx and very occasionally two pair?

Just sort of typed all that without re-reading it, so apologies for the redundancy. Want to make sure I'm narrowing ranges properly, so pls don't laugh this was a truly horrible hand.