€3-6 PLO 3 way turn spot...

[ih8winning]

Eff Stacks are €1.7k Cutoff opens Small blinds flats I 3 bet Pot to €72 With Ah Both call flop is  Small blind checks I bet €160 both call turn is Sb checks Hero?? should I just pot get in here?

[GreekStein]

I flat pre this deep.

3-way I probably check the flop too.

[ih8winning]

I dont like checking the flop after we 3 bet I will sometimes flat here. My plan is to bet fold the flop but after getting 2 calls the turn is a very weird spot

[GreekStein]

Why did you 3b pre?   
I don't expect to get 2 folds when I c-bet this flop and I'm gonna hate almost all turns.

[Patonius2000]

Def betting flop with the backdoors, you need to pot call now and it's not close. 7x is more interesting.

[ih8winning]

I 3bet pre for balance I think not 3betting in these spots ever is bad and is a live poker PLO play and online u will get crushed by alot better players not having a balanced 3 betting range oop just because were deep does not mean we shudnt 3bet here. I'm not expecting folds no but I have a good hand which is more than playable on tons of boards post flop. I like the flop it's a good flop to bet as it hits a lot of my 3 betting range. After being called in both spots I would be check folding alot of turns but the is interesting.

[ih8winning]

Def betting flop with the backdoors, you need to pot call now and it's not close. 7x is more interesting.

Yeh this was my thought process so u think pot getting in on turn is +EV now?

[SuuPRlim]

Def betting flop with the backdoors, you need to pot call now and it's not close. 7x is more interesting.

+1. 100% clicking the pot btn, not remotely close.
Personally I think i'm pot/calling 3x, 2x and blue cards. 7x, the are the interesting turn cards imo. we're stuck between two pretty much uncapped ranges and our hand is a LITTLE face up which makes a 7 really fucking sigh. decent fold equity + reasonable pot equity I reckon reckon I'm still hitting the pot button, but will be praying a little harder than on other cards tho

gonna c/f the but what a really fucking annoying card cos we're getting bluffed a ton and we cant really do anything.

[SuuPRlim]

I 3bet pre for balance I think not 3betting in these spots ever is bad and is a live poker PLO play and online u will get crushed by alot better players not having a balanced 3 betting range oop just because were deep does not mean we shudnt 3bet here. I'm not expecting folds no but I have a good hand which is more than playable on tons of boards post flop. I like the flop it's a good flop to bet as it hits a lot of my 3 betting range. After being called in both spots I would be check folding alot of turns but the is interesting.

yh, Althoguh I would most often not 3bet here PF - I always want really really strong ranges OOP which makes me pretty hard to bluff, but have to try hard to not be a mega mega nit from the blinds as you can get run over with deep stacks vs competant oppo's, so if I need to start 3betting a few SLIGHTLY weaker hands I think this hand is a great place to start. I don't think id 3bet in this specific spot unless there is something about your villains 4bet habbits you're not sharing

I went through a period of experimenting with 3betting nearly 0% from the blinds but this was boring and didn't really work at all lol

[GreekStein]

I 3bet pre for balance I think not 3betting in these spots ever is bad and is a live poker PLO play and online u will get crushed by alot better players not having a balanced 3 betting range oop just because were deep does not mean we shudnt 3bet here. I'm not expecting folds no but I have a good hand which is more than playable on tons of boards post flop. I like the flop it's a good flop to bet as it hits a lot of my 3 betting range. After being called in both spots I would be check folding alot of turns but the is interesting.

yh, Althoguh I would most often not 3bet here PF - I always want really really strong ranges OOP which makes me pretty hard to bluff, but have to try hard to not be a mega mega nit from the blinds as you can get run over with deep stacks vs competant oppo's, so if I need to start 3betting a few SLIGHTLY weaker hands I think this hand is a great place to start. I don't think id 3bet in this specific spot unless there is something about your villains 4bet habbits you're not sharing

I went through a period of experimenting with 3betting nearly 0% from the blinds but this was boring and didn't really work at all lol

[Patonius2000]

Def betting flop with the backdoors, you need to pot call now and it's not close. 7x is more interesting.

Yeh this was my thought process so u think pot getting in on turn is +EV now?

There's 700 in the pot and you have 1k behind. Breakeven equity on a shove is 37%. You're flipping vs Kx+hh, have between 35-42% vs two pair combos, 30ish% vs two pair+hh and low 20s vs sets. Worst case scenario average equity when called is like low thirties meaning they need to fold about 1/5 of the time to make pot calling profitable.

[ih8winning]

I 3bet pre for balance I think not 3betting in these spots ever is bad and is a live poker PLO play and online u will get crushed by alot better players not having a balanced 3 betting range oop just because were deep does not mean we shudnt 3bet here. I'm not expecting folds no but I have a good hand which is more than playable on tons of boards post flop. I like the flop it's a good flop to bet as it hits a lot of my 3 betting range. After being called in both spots I would be check folding alot of turns but the is interesting.

yh, Althoguh I would most often not 3bet here PF - I always want really really strong ranges OOP which makes me pretty hard to bluff, but have to try hard to not be a mega mega nit from the blinds as you can get run over with deep stacks vs competant oppo's, so if I need to start 3betting a few SLIGHTLY weaker hands I think this hand is a great place to start. I don't. think id 3bet in this specific spot unless there is something about your villains 4bet habbits you're not sharing
I went through a period of experimenting with 3betting nearly 0% from the blinds but this was boring and didn't really work at all lol

Yeh my plan was 2 pot call diamond turns other than  The small blind flatter was loose pre and pretty bad post so kind of felt 3betting wasn't to bad as he would play his hand face up post and just fold if he missed. No history with initial raiser. Yeh I just don't like playing to tight out of the blinds I'm 3betting hands like this from the blinds about 25%

[SuuPRlim]

I 3bet pre for balance I think not 3betting in these spots ever is bad and is a live poker PLO play and online u will get crushed by alot better players not having a balanced 3 betting range oop just because were deep does not mean we shudnt 3bet here. I'm not expecting folds no but I have a good hand which is more than playable on tons of boards post flop. I like the flop it's a good flop to bet as it hits a lot of my 3 betting range. After being called in both spots I would be check folding alot of turns but the is interesting.

yh, Althoguh I would most often not 3bet here PF - I always want really really strong ranges OOP which makes me pretty hard to bluff, but have to try hard to not be a mega mega nit from the blinds as you can get run over with deep stacks vs competant oppo's, so if I need to start 3betting a few SLIGHTLY weaker hands I think this hand is a great place to start. I don't. think id 3bet in this specific spot unless there is something about your villains 4bet habbits you're not sharing
I went through a period of experimenting with 3betting nearly 0% from the blinds but this was boring and didn't really work at all lol

Yeh my plan was 2 pot call diamond turns other than  The small blind flatter was loose pre and pretty bad post so kind of felt 3betting wasn't to bad as he would play his hand face up post and just fold if he missed. No history with initial raiser. Yeh I just don't like playing to tight out of the blinds I'm 3betting hands like this from the blinds about 25%

Yh without more solid reads on everyone I think this was prolly not a good spot to 3bet (it doesn't matter too much mind) post flop is not going to fin as you've described imo.

The best way to adjust your aggressive frequencies from the blinds IMO is to go way way way too tight, then start to losen up your ranges SLIGHTLY in spots where you're obviously being a monster nit - obv using nutted hands only - but being too loose from the blinds is the single biggest leak EVERYONE has in PLO, in a choice between being slightly too tight or slightly too loose being slightly too tight willl cost you infinitely less money in the long run

[zerofive]

Def betting flop with the backdoors, you need to pot call now and it's not close. 7x is more interesting.

Yeh this was my thought process so u think pot getting in on turn is +EV now?

There's 700 in the pot and you have 1k behind. Breakeven equity on a shove is 37%. You're flipping vs Kx+hh, have between 35-42% vs two pair combos, 30ish% vs two pair+hh and low 20s vs sets. Worst case scenario average equity when called is like low thirties meaning they need to fold about 1/5 of the time to make pot calling profitable.

I know it's boring and I'm an absolute n00b, but could someone break this down into a calculation? I'm not doubting Patonious for a second, but at the same time I'm simply not following. Understand why we have x% vs some hands, but not why we're breaking even so often.

[Patonius2000]

Def betting flop with the backdoors, you need to pot call now and it's not close. 7x is more interesting.

Yeh this was my thought process so u think pot getting in on turn is +EV now?

There's 700 in the pot and you have 1k behind. Breakeven equity on a shove is 37%. You're flipping vs Kx+hh, have between 35-42% vs two pair combos, 30ish% vs two pair+hh and low 20s vs sets. Worst case scenario average equity when called is like low thirties meaning they need to fold about 1/5 of the time to make pot calling profitable.

I know it's boring and I'm an absolute n00b, but could someone break this down into a calculation? I'm not doubting Patonious for a second, but at the same time I'm simply not following. Understand why we have x% vs some hands, but not why we're breaking even so often.

Breakeven equity = Amt Wagered/Post size when called*100 = 1000/2700*100= 37%.

To get equities for different parts of his range go to propokertools.com and put in various combinations vs your hand on this board. In this example I simply took different parts of his range and made an educated guess at our average equity when called. If this were holdem, you could plug a range in to pokerstove and get an accurate average equity pretty quickly. In PLO it's a lot more tedious and I often come out with errors and make mistakes, it might take me an afternoon to get all the syntax correct in PPT. Now I know for sure this is a clear bet call so not really interested in doing that.

Finally to work out how much villain has to fold:
EV when called = Avg equity when called/Total pot size - Amt wagered = 32(my approximation)/100*2700 = 864
864-1000 = -136.

EVc = -136.

When they fold to our bet we win +700. To calculate how much they need to fold we do EVc/EVf*100 = 136/700 = 19.5%.
Hope that's clear/helps.