Getting away from your own ambush?

[jjandellis]

OK so playing the Big $22 today and have been bouncing between 20th and 75th for since 2000 runners left and there are now about 600 left, with the bubble at 495.

I pick up Kings EP and decide to limp, with a view to catching out a short(ish) stack if they raise in late position.  However it folds around to the BB and this happens:

PokerStars Game #73341347650: Tournament #554010394, $20+$2 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XV (300/600) - 2012/01/05 14:39:30 ET
Table '554010394 85' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: xlamaster (21448 in chips)
Seat 2: Legendus (8754 in chips)
Seat 3: mariusc1 (18521 in chips)
Seat 4: Strive4Shine (21503 in chips)
Seat 5: RensPl (20937 in chips)
Seat 6: FloydForward (11194 in chips)
Seat 7: jjandellis (29085 in chips)
Seat 8: -N-holland (8000 in chips)
Seat 9: Pif37 (53062 in chips)
xlamaster: posts the ante 70
Legendus: posts the ante 70
mariusc1: posts the ante 70
Strive4Shine: posts the ante 70
RensPl: posts the ante 70
FloydForward: posts the ante 70
jjandellis: posts the ante 70
-N-holland: posts the ante 70
Pif37: posts the ante 70
Strive4Shine: posts small blind 300
RensPl: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jjandellis [ ]
FloydForward: folds
jjandellis: calls 600
-N-holland: folds
Pif37: folds
xlamaster: folds
Legendus: folds
mariusc1: folds
Strive4Shine: folds
RensPl: checks
*** FLOP *** [ ]
RensPl: checks
jjandellis: bets 1065
RensPl: raises 1935 to 3000
jjandellis: raises 3000 to 6000
RensPl: raises 14267 to 20267 and is all-in
jjandellis: calls 14267
*** TURN *** [ ] []
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
RensPl: shows [ ] (two pair, Queens and Fours)
jjandellis: shows [ ] (a pair of Kings)
RensPl collected 42664 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 42664 | Rake 0
Board [ ]
Seat 1: xlamaster folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Legendus folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: mariusc1 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Strive4Shine (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 5: RensPl (big blind) showed [ ] and won (42664) with two pair, Queens and Fours
Seat 6: FloydForward folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: jjandellis showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Kings
Seat 8: -N-holland folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Pif37 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

I haven't played against the villain before but he appears tight (13/10).  At what point do you get away from this hand?

Do you fold to his initial raise? Do you definitely get away from his shove?

[outragous76]

dont limp KK pre

never fold the flop

[Girgy85]

Raise Pre.

[outragous76]

OK I know limping pre with KK is one helluva sin, but once we get ourselves into this pickle at what point do we get away from it?

you have KK and 30bbs

[George2Loose]

dont limp KK pre

never fold the flop

Not sure I agree with the second statement

[Solaris]

Flat his c/r and take a turn card.

The beautiful phrase, "don't go broke in an unraised pot" springs to mind.

[Solaris]

OK I know limping pre with KK is one helluva sin, but once we get ourselves into this pickle at what point do we get away from it?

you have KK and 30bbs

Do you think villain is really 4bet shoving Qx or a FD?

[outragous76]

dont limp KK pre

never fold the flop

Not sure I agree with the second statement

so playing 30bbs, lets say you raised pre and bb peeled - you fold that flop?

[outragous76]

OK I know limping pre with KK is one helluva sin, but once we get ourselves into this pickle at what point do we get away from it?

you have KK and 30bbs

Do you think villain is really 4bet shoving Qx or a FD?

i prepared to take my chance with KK

pretty sure he can have Axhh / AQ

[Solaris]

dont limp KK pre

never fold the flop

Not sure I agree with the second statement

so playing 30bbs, lets say you raised pre and bb peeled - you fold that flop?

You can assign a completely different range when he calls a raise. It's not the same as limping at all.

[outragous76]

dont limp KK pre

never fold the flop

Not sure I agree with the second statement

so playing 30bbs, lets say you raised pre and bb peeled - you fold that flop?

You can assign a completely different range when he calls a raise. It's not the same as limping at all.

im still not folding

[Solaris]

dont limp KK pre

never fold the flop

Not sure I agree with the second statement

so playing 30bbs, lets say you raised pre and bb peeled - you fold that flop?

You can assign a completely different range when he calls a raise. It's not the same as limping at all.

im still not folding

Whilst I doubt the OP has anywhere near enough hands for the 13/10 stats of villain to be majorly relevant, I'd really doubt that someone who is a winning player (as villain is) is 4bet shoving the flop with a flush draw. In fact, I don't ever see the villain 4bet shoving the flop with anything we beat other than perhaps AQ. That's the absolute bottom of his range imo.

Still think we can flat the flop c/r and go from there.

[George2Loose]

Problem is I don't ever flat with anything ever when first in so tough to say what I'd do. Wouldn't be crazy about getting it in as played tho

[outragous76]

Surely the whole point is that limping KK is pretty terrible play (without a very specific reason to do it)

The question we should be asking is why did he limp?

Poker in 2012 is about playing hands for value. Trapping is beyond yesterday (on the whole). We are delighted to get this in pre if we can, and there are very few spots where we are folding post flop maybe a 9TJ type board might slow us down.

This is a $22 MTT where people will just give you chips. Therefore play your hands in order that they can

[outragous76]

Problem is I don't ever flat with anything ever when first in so tough to say what I'd do. Wouldn't be crazy about getting it in as played tho

and this is why we dont limp pre, because if we arent prepare to get it in on this type of board against a BB atc, we will always feel like this, even when the BB decides to spazz his brains out