qj small blind hand against leethefish monotone flop

[Skippy]

I've got  in the small blind. I've got 13500, lee covers me in the bb. 150/300. 3 or 4 limps I make it up, and lee squeezes to 1100. 2 folds , a fish calls and I call the extra 800. Flop comes down  . Check, Lee bets 2000 and the fish folds. I check-shove my remaining 12000.

Comments?

[Solaris]

Fold pre to his raise, fold post-flop to his bet.

Anything else is spewy and really bad.

[chatban]

Fold pre. Awkward position. You are OOP to two fish ;-)

As played though. Its a real mess of a hand to defend with and exemplifies why we fold pre. We hit top pair and still have no clue what to do.

IMO c/c>c/f>bet>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>check shove.

I struggle to see how he calls anything you beat¿
If you just want to 'take it down now' then you really should think why and what that achieves.

[Skippy]

Fold pre. Awkward position. You are OOP to two fish ;-)

Really? You're getting 2.5/1+ on a call, and have a great SPR for a top pair type hand and you want to fold it? Lee's range is wide here, IMO (If I'm wrong about this and he needs top 5% to do this then probably a fold. I certainly raise more than this to squeeze against fish who will fold a lot to c-bets).

As played though. Its a real mess of a hand to defend with and exemplifies why we fold pre. We hit top pair and still have no clue what to do.

Like I say, my plan was to hit top pair or a straight draw and get it in/semi-bluff get it in.

IMO c/c>c/f>bet>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>check shove.

Trouble is if you call, the pot is now 8000, and I've got 10k back. I felt at the time I was pretty committed (this probably isn't true, but I'm going to struggle to fold non-spade turns).

I struggle to see how he calls anything you beat¿

Worse Queens, the bare Ace of spades, the Ace of spades with another pair..., a 7 that thinks that I've got the  As and I'm full of it. Basically, I think that jamming gives me a perceived range of lots of hands, of which I'm near the top of my range. I think he thinks that a lot of hands he has are in front of my range for a flop jam, but they're not actually in front of of the hand I've got (does this sound like nonsense?).


Yes, I know I'm being one of those people who puts a hand up on PHA asking for advice, then says that he disagrees with all of the advice and then everyone says "why did you ask then?". Maybe I like calling more on the flop, I dunno.

[George2Loose]

Really. Fold pre. Terrible hand to call with

[Skippy]

Calling (pre) with   ? Calling pre with anything?

[chatban]

Calling with (pre) with   ? Calling pre with anything?

No because I figure Lee will do this a lot. The only thing I might ever consider doing this with is 22-77. If you arent capping the action in a 3 way pot oop then you should fold a lot of your range in small blind.

[George2Loose]

Calling (pre) with   ? Calling pre with anything?

nope. You're stacking off here on a guess because you've called with marginal OOP to a pretty strong squeeze out of the big blind

[MANTIS01]

Like I say, my plan was to hit top pair or a straight draw

I don't like this plan much dude.

Think it's more of a hope than a plan.

Hannibal from A-Team had good plans. See how he always got BA to drink glass of milk before getting on the plane.

[chatban]

Like I say, my plan was to hit top pair or a straight draw

I don't like this plan much dude.

Think it's more of a hope than a plan.

Hannibal from A-Team had good plans. See how he always got BA to drink glass of milk before getting on the plane.

Black and white tv programmes ITT

[George2Loose]

Like I say, my plan was to hit top pair or a straight draw

I don't like this plan much dude.

Think it's more of a hope than a plan.

Hannibal from A-Team had good plans. See how he always got BA to drink glass of milk before getting on the plane.

If this was your plan and you were successful with said plan, why is said plan being questioned on PHA?

[Solaris]

Really? You're getting 2.5/1+ on a call, and have a great SPR for a top pair type hand and you want to fold it? Lee's range is wide here, IMO (If I'm wrong about this and he needs top 5% to do this then probably a fold. I certainly raise more than this to squeeze against fish who will fold a lot to c-bets).

I don't know lee to comment on his game, but if he's a decent thinking player, it's highly unlikely he's raising OOP into a bunch of players who are bad enough to limp in the first place with a weak hand. He surely has to know that they will nearly always call.

As for the flop, it would then be pretty terrible to c-bet on a board like this with complete air. You're rarely getting king high or jack high flushes to fold and he's still OOP to everyone but you.

Think you absolutely butchered the hand if I'm honest.

[BulldozerD]

I would say his pre flop range looks very strong and fold pretty quickly

[Skippy]

nope. You're stacking off here on a guess because you've called with marginal OOP to a pretty strong squeeze out of the big blind

I don't know lee to comment on his game, but if he's a decent thinking player, it's highly unlikely he's raising OOP into a bunch of players who are bad enough to limp in the first place with a weak hand. He surely has to know that they will nearly always call.

Ah, I clearly suck. I think Lee could have any old rubbish here, but you think he must be pretty strong. I know this because in Lee's shoes I raise with some pretty ropey hands... see http://blondepoker.com/forum/index.php?topic=56312.msg1484698#msg1484698 . Maybe this is an error. in my play.

As for the flop, it would then be pretty terrible to c-bet on a board like this with complete air. You're rarely getting king high or jack high flushes to fold and he's still OOP to everyone but you.

Yeah, but you don't know what the flop is before you raise pre do you. I'm not gonna c-bet this board, but most boards I am for instant profit when I take the lead pre. You say this doesn't work, but my perception is that it works in the tourneys I play. In tourneys, I find that players who limp are also players who don't float when they miss. Raise- thin field to two or three opponents- c-bet- pretty much instant profit.

[EvilPie]

my plan was to hit top pair or a straight draw.

I might make this my sig.