4bp In pos hero/ villan lines- ranges?

[stato_1]

QTo is pretty much the worst possible hand to defend with, and attempting a multi street float with an SPR of 4 is pretty fps. I guess floating the flop is OK as it will put the villain in a tricky spot on the turn with the lower end of his range, not a big fan of the turn tho. That card actually hits your range pretty hard imo (ur hand looks quite a lot like it could be AQ and villain still wants to bet after you've called the A52r flop so is pretty unlikely to be light here unless hes just trying to barrel u off a float. Wouldn't call the turn just because we've got a pair now.

River was played well.

Also the sizings in the HH are a bit wrong. It was 7 -> 19 -> 48 pre and 42 on the flop. Don't suppose that matters a massive amount. Would also 3bet bigger pre if were gonna as we would want to make it bigger with value hands imo. Probably wouldn't 3bet pre anyway as villain is likely opening hella wide in the spot, may as well keep in T6s, Q8o etc, also let the fish in blinds peel with Q4 and T5, they are the value here. A decent villain is not gonna peel OOP with many hands that are not going to cause you problems to play against.

FWIW my stereotyping of u after a few hands was that you were far more likely to attempt to try and do something a bit crazy here than be scared money. No real reasoning for that, just a bit of a hunch from some of things you were saying. My advice would be to just keep quiet about somethings. I mean be chatty or w/e at the table that's good but I'd only been at the table 4 hands, and was already aware that you knew who Alex was, and therefore there was a decent chance you knew who I was, and also you called it a 3bet rather than a backraise! Dont let anyone know that you know a bit about what you are talking about, decent players will use all the information available to them, and after 4 hands, stereotyping u is all they've got. If you don't give them anything to go on, they have absolutely nothing, whereas you know a bit more about me, use that edge.

 Stereotyping is a pretty important tool in live poker imo. For example, had you kept totally quiet about poker, not said a word, played no hands until u 3bet, peeled a 4bet, and floated the A52r, I've got no reason not to check fold KK on the turn or w/e. If I know you are here to play the game, my perception of the likelihood of you floating is far higher.

I think you thinking villain thinks you are scared money is mainly just u levelling urself tbh.

PS Walster given credit as a winning reg ITT

PPS Yeah he got the look lol At least you got 800 quid for it though!

PPPS Feel free to give me your own look when you win a pot off me Al

[rfgqqabc]

Esp as i heard hero talk about sitting at the 2/5 table earlier on in the night, can't remember which table this was but Stato easily could have guessed. Generally youngish twenty somethings are solid and not scared money...

[Pinchop73]

Stato_1?

Norrrr can't be, what's with the min 4b pre? To me it makes you look strong trying to keep his range wide.

My own opinion. Versus an unknown with zero history, I don't see any reason why he'd min4ball <TT, or A2s/A5s. Ip I could see it.

So when the turn bet comes, a really good ace is a large section of his range. Checks TT/JJ/KK after the flop flat. Fires with QQ/AQ/AK/AA, and the very small amount of semi bluffs he has left, AJs/ATs/KJs/KTs etc

Because of zero dynamics vs this particular villain, this kind of makes the river more of a sigh flick it in for me rather than a fistpump snap his face off call.

If I was hero and didn't know that Stato_1 was a world class 6max player I might struggle to call otr.

Hero's play is very Meh, even though he's a good friend. :p

Your perceived range is massively capped at big aces exactly by the time you call the turn, as you will have raised 2pr/sets by now. (I only make this statement due to a large history with Hero.)

Unless you've developed a nuts calling range in the last month or so?! Oh the levels are so exciting!

[stato_1]

what's with the min 4b pre

min 4bet would be 31, i made it 48

Stato_1 was a world class 6max player

LOOL quoted to avoid deletion

[cambridgealex]

what's with the min 4b pre

min 4bet would be 31, i made it 48

Stato_1 was a world class 6max player

LOOL quoted to avoid deletion

doesn't avoid mocking though!

also,

I'd only been at the table 4 hands, and was already aware that you knew who Alex was

hardly differentiates him from anyone else in the world does it

[Pinchop73]

What? Was is correct.

I would have typed 'is', but you lost, so how crap must you be! Maybe world class is too much spin.

I stand by my opinion that the 4ball is pretty small vs an unknown, making your range look real strong.

[jgcblack]

To me it just looks like the perfect size to take back the initiative since so many people in these games would then insta-spaz with their value hands.. making it 120 so he can play his whole range perfectly.

I think the 4bt size is very well chosen for both value hands, keeping me in and also marginal/ bluff hands for allowing him to take the initiave and maybe even the pot down cheaply.

Thanks a lot Andy for your post, I really appreciate it.. you're absolutely correct about me and my big mouth.. can't help myself some times.  But I now see the hand very differently when I look through your eyes.

I guess the scared money stuff was just self-levelling.. I am currently on level 22 but struggling with enough exp to reach 23.  Can't kill the dam troll at the end of the maze.

I would like to ask you what you think villain is going to do with EVERYTHING else except AK/ AA in this spot (we're assuming he never has a Q as thats too sick to contemplate)??

We all know Alex because he's "that rude posh boy innit".



Going out to see Sherlock Holmes, gota admit i'll be keeping an eye on this while in the cinema. UL again sir, the douche on my left reminding the whole table of the hand to make me look bad because ive reprimanded him in the past was horrible for you.

And I will obviously give you the same look, maybe even a mini blowup.. because if a world class 6maxing stato whose a countdown champion of all time, apparently runs good in meal flips and just wins for fun.. well if he did that to me. I'd feel a little sick - minimum.

[SuuPRlim]

wow this is all very complex lol, are we playing ego games here or are we trying to make money?

You've picked quite a bad hand to 3bet in deep full ring holdem imo, this would be an ok 3bet online and 6max because it would be terrible to flat with it, here however you can merrily call, see a flop vs two weak blinds and a guy opening half the deck in position. If you're going to make a loose defend of a 4bet (your reasons for flatting a non premium range are fine fwiw) you really need something that flops better than QTo, which is why (again) if you're going to make complex fancy plays like this you need to be 3betting slightly better hands.  ,  ,  and so on would be ideal hands. If you're going to do anything but fold QTo a small 5bet is a better vacuum play imo - still dislike it a lot in this exact spot.

pretty sure almost his entire range, air and value now cbets this board, including KK/QQ/JJ, I don't like the flaot personally, as your range is just FULL of bluff catchers and his has nut hands, if he has air here he's likely to barrel off and thats a pretty horrible spot when you're ACTUALLY bluff catching without too much info, nevermind when you're only repping a bluff catcher. by the turn you actually HAVE a bluff catcher now and your life still sucks as you now 100% cannot bluff in this hand anymore as the only hand you can take him off is KK and you're going to get bluffed on the river quite a bit imo. (i'd be folding a lot)

I think this is just overly fancy tbh, you've basically made a big pot with a bad hand and attempted to rep the top of a range weaker than you're opponents, I really hate getting out of line in spots where you have a weaker range throughout the hand and when you try to rep the top of that range you have such few combo's that you're now very polarised and quite easy to exploit/bluff catch vs.

[stato_1]

Yeah keep the fish in. Probs the most important thing itt.

Didn't care about the guy tbf. He was needling u not me lol!!

Also didn't think that u had a big mouth at all, its good to talk, and I definitely talk at the table quite a bit, but just realise what is relevant to the game and don't giVe away too much of that

[WotRTheChances]

Pretty much echo everyones sentiments on here. QT is definately in a group of nut worst hands to attempt this 'plan' with. Really really dont like your plan in this hand fwiw, seems massively spewy to decide to take a massively high-variance, questionable 'repping bluff catchers' line in a 4-bet pot against a player you have already identified as one of the few players in the club to be a very thinking player and unlikely to make mistakes.

Also think the 4-bet sizing is fine, personally would make it a little more (would use this sizing online, but I don't allow myself that much room for balancing my range, as do my best to play vs non-thinking players [Alex, Mitch etc] most of the time).

Another point of note, I would try and be a bit more concise and clear in future posts, seems like your posts are full of FPS wording too trololololl... i see what you were trying to do in the OP, but it does make it very difficult to follow.

[cambridgealex]

Another point of note, I would try and be a bit more concise and clear in future posts, seems like your posts are full of FPS wording too trololololl... i see what you were trying to do in the OP, but it does make it very difficult to follow.  I DON'T UNDERSTAND COMPLICATED TERMS

fyp

[stato_1]

Re: the 4bet sizing, I thought you would be expecting me to 4bet light often, and anticipated that you would probably adjust to this by 5 betting. The sizing was based on your  stack size, was planning to 6bet  shove so wanted to choose an amount where you would 5bet bluff to the largest amount i could induce and then you would fold to the shove. 49 is ok for this as thought you would make it maybe 105 in response, but maybe 51-52 actually does  a better job of this and you could make it slightly more then fold. Don't really care too much if you peel, felt I would have your peeling range pretty locked up with AK

[Mitch]

Just like to point out that I think on level one, to stay one step ahead of the regs.

Thankyou.

[WotRTheChances]

Re: the 4bet sizing, I thought you would be expecting me to 4bet light often, and anticipated that you would probably adjust to this by 5 betting. The sizing was based on your  stack size, was planning to 6bet  shove so wanted to choose an amount where you would 5bet bluff to the largest amount i could induce and then you would fold to the shove. 49 is ok for this as thought you would make it maybe 105 in response, but maybe 51-52 actually does  a better job of this and you could make it slightly more then fold. Don't really care too much if you peel, felt I would have your peeling range pretty locked up with AK
 

<3 stato

[jgcblack]

I appreciate everything everyone has posted, about the OP itself, I just copy n pasted the template and changed each bit for the actual content.  I'm guessing any future PHA's will likely be simpler and require less hiding my poor and obviously FPS attempts.

It's not meant to be an Ego war, more that I thought it would be an interesting spot when I have a lot of information on the villain and he doesn't have any clue who I am.

About the hand itself, I've noticed no one has even mentioned the possibility that Stato is 4betting light..? or how this hand would play out if he was... REMEMBER this was the reason for the entire hand in the first place.. if we knew when we'd make three ladies, we'd be Mitch, right?
(If I understand Prose of a Poshboys profile of said genius).

How do we think the hand plays if Stato doesn't have the A and the K..? Obv he did this time.. and like he said, the 4bt was so obviously setting up a stacks 6bt that calling pre will make the hand very hard for him post flop if he doesn't make a pair.. (doesnt the Q10 lend itself well to boards that he will 'rep with equity' on..??)  My thinking was that even a J72 flop will be hard for him to win long term imo.  He even mentioned himself in this session a certain person he's played with that used to peel too much to his raises but over a long long time has changed their default pre-flop strategy to now counter his aggressive play better.

I also agree with the change in hands to 3bt pre.. had this been  then i think it might even be criminal not to 3b since the blinds will call more often than they should and should villain decide to try and resqueeze once they call then we can either peel in pos again or make a big 5bt (since his 4b will have to be bigger) to really rep a monster.

I'm also wondering why at no point anyone has mentioned that there isn't any point in me 5bt-ing KK or AA or AK here when villain either has a value hand we will likely stack anyways, or has a bluff - in which case we will only lose any future moneyz he would like to donate.

Also, Stato - what is your plan if you don't make a pair?? (or some of it..)