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Author Topic: Can someone please mark my homework?  (Read 2153 times)
jjandellis
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« on: January 10, 2012, 10:02:23 PM »

OK, so I've got/had a real block on running (properly) deep in big field MTT's. 180 SNG's no problem, but MTT's - big problem! I appreciate some of these are pretty basic, but the next couple of paras explain my slight lack of confidence in my decision making towards the three hands...

I've posted a couple of hands recently and had my knuckles rapped by the PHA teachers for being a little too aggressive or trappy with my play when we're getting towards the business end of tourneys. I've gone away, read lots more PHA's and tried a bit of leak busting.

HOWEVER, a $5 Rebuy (1198 runners) left me feeling I'd gone a bit too far on tightening up my range.  So I have got 3 stand out hands here for comment. I believe all are very similar, so dunno if I've essentially made the same mistake 3 times...

ONE:

PokerStars Hand #73610099668: Tournament #555010202, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XIX (2500/5000) - 2012/01/10 10:44:33 ET
Table '555010202 92' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: pussycat3333 (37680 in chips)
Seat 2: truthahn1966 (123577 in chips)
Seat 3: seoda (63003 in chips)
Seat 4: jjandellis (80368 in chips)
Seat 6: andrecosteau (96660 in chips)
Seat 7: JeLaBot (207350 in chips)
Seat 8: BuLdo3eR (80040 in chips)
Seat 9: thomaster.d (194170 in chips)
pussycat3333: posts the ante 500
truthahn1966: posts the ante 500
seoda: posts the ante 500
jjandellis: posts the ante 500
andrecosteau: posts the ante 500
JeLaBot: posts the ante 500
BuLdo3eR: posts the ante 500
thomaster.d: posts the ante 500
thomaster.d: posts small blind 2500
pussycat3333: posts big blind 5000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jjandellis [ ]
truthahn1966: folds
seoda: folds
jjandellis: folds
andrecosteau: folds
JeLaBot: folds
BuLdo3eR: raises 5000 to 10000
thomaster.d: folds
pussycat3333: folds
Uncalled bet (5000) returned to BuLdo3eR
BuLdo3eR collected 16500 from pot
BuLdo3eR: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 16500 | Rake 0
Seat 1: pussycat3333 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: truthahn1966 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: seoda folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: jjandellis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: andrecosteau folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: JeLaBot folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: BuLdo3eR (button) collected (16500)
Seat 9: thomaster.d (small blind) folded before Flop

This is with about 90 runners remaining. My image is somewhat tight, as I've dropped from 11th to 75th waiting for a good spot to raise then gotten myself up to around 45th. Earlier I'd normally limp this hand.  I wasn't particularly keen on jamming it and getting called. Does a small raise get this through? How do you play 44 in a situation like this?

TWO

PokerStars Hand #73612466039: Tournament #555010202, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXI (3500/7000) - 2012/01/10 11:31:34 ET
Table '555010202 92' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: matze_widi (510511 in chips)
Seat 3: Falken66 (525815 in chips)
Seat 4: jjandellis (177644 in chips)
Seat 5: MrPotatoes28 (122921 in chips)
Seat 6: imeturmoney (351680 in chips)
Seat 7: JeLaBot (197651 in chips)
Seat 8: BuLdo3eR (102940 in chips)
Seat 9: thomaster.d (351134 in chips)
matze_widi: posts the ante 700
Falken66: posts the ante 700
jjandellis: posts the ante 700
MrPotatoes28: posts the ante 700
imeturmoney: posts the ante 700
JeLaBot: posts the ante 700
BuLdo3eR: posts the ante 700
thomaster.d: posts the ante 700
imeturmoney: posts small blind 3500
JeLaBot: posts big blind 7000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jjandellis [Two Clubs two hearts]
BuLdo3eR: folds
thomaster.d: raises 8400 to 15400
matze_widi: folds
Falken66: folds
jjandellis: folds
MrPotatoes28: folds
imeturmoney: folds
JeLaBot: calls 8400
*** FLOP *** [two spades ]
JeLaBot: checks
thomaster.d: checks
*** TURN *** [two spades ] []
JeLaBot: bets 11499
thomaster.d: folds
Uncalled bet (11499) returned to JeLaBot
JeLaBot collected 39900 from pot
JeLaBot: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 39900 | Rake 0
Board [two spades ]
Seat 1: matze_widi folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Falken66 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: jjandellis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: MrPotatoes28 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: imeturmoney (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: JeLaBot (big blind) collected (39900)
Seat 8: BuLdo3eR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: thomaster.d folded on the Turn

Slightly bigger M of 11 and this time facing a small raise from player who I assessed to have quite a wide range. Shove/call/fold?

Hindsight showing a set coming on the flop grrrr

THREE

PokerStars Hand #73615214865: Tournament #555010202, $5.00+$0.50 USD Hold'em No Limit - Level XXV (8000/16000) - 2012/01/10 12:24:33 ET
Table '555010202 92' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: matze_widi (596297 in chips)
Seat 2: gansolino (256087 in chips)
Seat 3: Falken66 (353715 in chips)
Seat 4: jjandellis (230044 in chips)
Seat 5: sTrOnGmAtEs (463164 in chips)
Seat 6: imeturmoney (447830 in chips)
Seat 9: thomaster.d (251384 in chips)
matze_widi: posts the ante 1600
gansolino: posts the ante 1600
Falken66: posts the ante 1600
jjandellis: posts the ante 1600
sTrOnGmAtEs: posts the ante 1600
imeturmoney: posts the ante 1600
thomaster.d: posts the ante 1600
matze_widi: posts small blind 8000
gansolino: posts big blind 16000
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to jjandellis [ ]
Falken66: raises 16000 to 32000
jjandellis: folds
sTrOnGmAtEs: folds
imeturmoney: folds
imeturmoney is sitting out
thomaster.d: folds
matze_widi: folds
gansolino: calls 16000
*** FLOP *** [three diamonds Two Clubs ]
gansolino: checks
Falken66: bets 32000
imeturmoney has returned
gansolino: raises 190487 to 222487 and is all-in
Falken66: calls 190487
*** TURN *** [three diamonds Two Clubs ] []
*** RIVER *** [three diamonds Two Clubs ] []
*** SHOW DOWN ***
gansolino: shows [ ] (a pair of Sixes)
Falken66: shows [ ] (a pair of Queens)
Falken66 collected 528174 from pot
gansolino finished the tournament in 13th place and received $143.66.
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 528174 | Rake 0
Board [three diamonds Two Clubs ]
Seat 1: matze_widi (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: gansolino (big blind) showed [ ] and lost with a pair of Sixes
Seat 3: Falken66 showed [ ] and won (528174) with a pair of Queens
Seat 4: jjandellis folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: sTrOnGmAtEs folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: imeturmoney folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: thomaster.d (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Again, back to an M of 7 -but I have been bouncing around between 7th and 12th. I was taking down pots uncontested but twice in 2 orbits I've had to raise fold pre. I was a little concerned I was beginning to be viewed as a little passive - and did not think 77 was the right hand to be answering shoves with.

Just concentrating on Preflop - was I wrong to fold this in EP? Would you be raising with 77 at this stage or shoving? Or fold it like I did?

Is the general theme here that I need to add a little more aggression back in - or are these folds acceptable?

* FWIW I exited 12th AK < AQ!



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Solaris
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« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2012, 10:43:26 PM »

1) I fold.

2) I fold. Shouldn't be calling with deuces out of a 25bb stack imo. Never going to flop a set enough for that to be profitable and jamming is just awful. 

3) Jam all day long over his raise.
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chatban
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« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2012, 10:56:17 PM »

I think all 3 are folds.

1. Very good fold.
2. We dont flop a set often enough to get paid here.
3. This is the only one that is close. I fold because we are EP and even if the utg raiser isnt strong someone else may wake up.

A few things though.

I would like to know what you do if it isnt opened in the first two spots because I think you will be surprized to hear I would open fold.

Thre 3rd hand I thinkI probably bet/call unless player is uber tight.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2012, 10:59:45 PM by chatban » Logged
Solaris
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« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2012, 10:58:03 PM »

I think all 3 are folds.

1. Is such an easy decision. We have no fold equity.
2. We dont flop a set often enough to get paid here.
3. This is the only one that is close. I fold because we are EP and even if the utg raiser isnt strong someone else may wake up.

A few things though.

I would like to know what you do if it isnt opened in the first two spots because I think you will be surprized to hear I would open fold.

Thre 3rd hand I thinkI probably bet/call unless player is uber tight.

He does open fold the first hand tbf.
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« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2012, 11:01:35 PM »

Lol this is why I am just watching TV tonight and not playing.

Sorry good open fold in first hand.
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« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2012, 11:19:20 PM »

OK cool, seems I am on the right tracks apart from hand 3. TVM!

Youmust have made a tidy sum for 12th? $250 or so. Nice cash!
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cambridgealex
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« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2012, 12:37:21 AM »

Worried by the comment "usually I just limp these hands early on"...

If yr gonna play em, raise em or call a raise in position. Try to avoid limping in almost every possible situation imo.

All 3 good folds though.
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« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2012, 12:45:23 AM »

Hands are not that bad I defo Jam hand 3 over initial raise though... and like comment above try to avoid limping
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mulhuzz
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« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2012, 01:06:45 AM »

Worried by the comment "usually I just limp these hands early on"...

If yr gonna play em, raise em or call a raise in position. Try to avoid limping in almost every possible situation imo.

All 3 good folds though.

think it's ok to limp 22-66 in EP in early stages of tournaments tbh.
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WotRTheChances
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« Reply #9 on: January 11, 2012, 06:44:04 AM »

Worried by the comment "usually I just limp these hands early on"...

If yr gonna play em, raise em or call a raise in position. Try to avoid limping in almost every possible situation imo.

All 3 good folds though.

think it's ok to limp 22-66 in EP in early stages of tournaments tbh.

Ashamed to say I agree with Al. Disagree with the above. How are you balancing this range? Limping PPs in EP is pretty prehistoric, if you limp and show up with low PPs every time, people can exploit that soooo easily. Its just pretty tez imo.

imo hand 1 is the only one that is close. I probs raise here more than I should, not sure how bad it is. Hands 2 and 3 and pretty clear folds, 2 is not close.
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muckthenuts
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« Reply #10 on: January 11, 2012, 07:31:02 AM »

No open limping! Limping behind early on is a slightly different story and is a pretty perceivable strategy at the micros.

Also would suggest the use of converters when posting hh's, like this one - http://www.handconverter.com/. Just makes things easier to read speshly when posting multiple hands.
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mulhuzz
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« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2012, 10:00:39 AM »

Worried by the comment "usually I just limp these hands early on"...

If yr gonna play em, raise em or call a raise in position. Try to avoid limping in almost every possible situation imo.

All 3 good folds though.

think it's ok to limp 22-66 in EP in early stages of tournaments tbh.

Ashamed to say I agree with Al. Disagree with the above. How are you balancing this range? Limping PPs in EP is pretty prehistoric, if you limp and show up with low PPs every time, people can exploit that soooo easily. Its just pretty tez imo.

imo hand 1 is the only one that is close. I probs raise here more than I should, not sure how bad it is. Hands 2 and 3 and pretty clear folds, 2 is not close.

It's the micros, fuck balancing, but you can balance it as well with SCs, some suited Ax and some QQ+ from time to time as well should you choose.

It might also be bad, prepared to be convinced as well ofc Wink
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« Reply #12 on: January 11, 2012, 11:57:08 AM »

1 + 2 are easy folds imo.

3 if he's opening all the time I'd be shipping here some% with what looks like some decent fold equity. If not though it seems like a pretty reasonable fold as well.

low pocket pairs are hands we really need to be sure of a LOT of fold equity when we're re-shipping them because we have pretty bad equity in general vs a generic opening range, they are best for the spots where people have quite wide opening ranges but are likely to call quite tight (i.e they'll fold 77 but they will calll AK etc)
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SuuPRlim
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« Reply #13 on: January 11, 2012, 01:09:28 PM »

Worried by the comment "usually I just limp these hands early on"...

If yr gonna play em, raise em or call a raise in position. Try to avoid limping in almost every possible situation imo.

All 3 good folds though.

Am I stuck in the past going with Harrington on this? Always thought small pairs in EP were to be limped with a view to set mining as the odds of flopping trips was so high it was -EV to raise??

nah, stacks are so deep you're way way better off raising and you have a much better chance of winning a non-showdown pot (albeit prolly a small one) also when we do flop our set the pot is a little bigger.

The other problem has  Tom said is when you limp/call pre early on your range literally wreaks of small-mid PP's and I think villain with KK is goin got be super cautious on a 367r flop.
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« Reply #14 on: January 11, 2012, 01:15:03 PM »

Think all 3 are good folds. I think I would fold hand 3, although for some reason I'd be tempted to jam hand 1 when unopened to me (but should fold this in EP)
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