He's gotta b strong n he's gota b fast N he's gotta be fresh from the fight..

[jgcblack]

More spew I'm sure.. but im learning slowly..... very... slowly.  (sometimes I think im the monkey with the typewriter - just need 10,000 years!)


Grand Prix day 1G

Background -
We have come to the table an hour or two earlier, started very reserved and observant.. with about 24k, blinds @ 300/600 and played really solid.  After an hour or so we open up a little, pretty happy with our table and image.  Then run it over for a while.. taking away pots from people who cr 9x on 982cc with 5high etc.. putting the 'kid' on our left in a box by small 4bt-ing QJs and making him pass 'JJ' apparently and basically settling in for a great tournament and looking to get to day2 with a good stack (up to 37K now - avg is 23k).

Then enter villain to the table, he see's im running it over and sits down with approx 17k two to our left..  Big bald muscly looking guy, early 40's, those ****tastic sun glasses that aren't dark but aren't completely see through, a hoody and an ipod with cheap as chips headphones... - clearly a 'wannabe' playa!  We don't know for sure but he seems the type to get into ego wars (probably, I find 'gym goers' who aren't good at the game do this A LOT) but on the advice of a certain blondite I'm now trying more and more to not make too many massive moves/ guesses without actual info.

We raise xx on btn and get 3bt by him a few hands in and pass quite quickly, dont feel like he will likely be playing back at us too much pre.. so have my chips sir, enjoy please.





Hand

Then we find next hand in CO and open again..

400/800 playing 37k
Hero raises CO to 1625, villain raises to 5600, Hero calls with .

Pot 12.25k
Flop 

 
Villain bets 2400, Hero calls 2400

Pot 17.05k
Turn


Villain checks, Hero checks

Pot 17.05k
River


Villain shoves for 13.2k


WWYDAY???






I don't see there being many value hands here..  I was snap folding to ANY river 'bet' but the shove seemed strange so I went into the think tank.

I know the flop cbet was really small, not sure if it was to induce or something but I didn't need to raise (got a pair innit) and it'll be really easy to see if he has an A on future streets... but obv he's never going to check that flop when he's 3bt pre.

Then checking the turn seemed weird.. started to wonder if I was actually ahead here.. pretty sure he's barrelling air/ club draws.. so a check probably means he has a pair too (which will undoubtedly beat our ).

Then shoving the river.. well ... why?

Value hands
IF he has an  , then shoving 'should' only get called by a flush.. = bad for him
IF he has a flush, he makes us fold an , quite a lot = bad for him
IF he has  then I guess I get it, nice value bet - doesnt expect me to fold a flush/ , = wp sir but not getting called a lot = bad for him

IF he shoves in general, we will obvious call less often than if he bets like 3-8k.. = hmmmm.... its his first 'big hand' at the table.... hmmmmm....

Bluffs
IF he has air... then he reps a flush and gets me to fold = good for him
IF he has pairs that include a big club then he might think he can rep a flush = sick value bet, unknown to him

The main thing I'm worried about is that somehow the 2.4k flop bet was value and after me not raising or betting turn he's decided to shove just because he wants more value for his good hand!


Talk to me people...

[George2Loose]

fold


pre


flop

[pleno1]

these bald idiots from northern europe, how do they make me put so much of my stack in with such a bad hand and think about calling when it is obvious the idiot has it.

Tl;dr, fold pre, dont need to get into these wars against these fish, small ball poker involving lots of small bluffs and good sized value bets when the time is right and ul be fine.

Def dont call here.

Seems like you get a little emotional, its good you are stereotyping players as young, female and bald, seriously its good but leave the emotion/im better than anybody else at home.

[EvilPie]

This bit isn't too bad:

Then we find next hand in CO and open again..

400/800 playing 37k
Hero raises CO to 1625

This bit is awful:

 villain raises to 5600, Hero calls with .

[Pugwashed]

Fold to the 3bet ldo.

What did he have when you called? KK seems likely

[jgcblack]

I wasn't trying to get emotional but I guess I get what you mean.. if theres anyone who's going to sympathise with my hero-ing thoughts here I guess its you Pads (from what I've seen of you).

G2L, I know that folding pre is probably the best..
As the UKIPT uber genius.. are you telling me you're not in these kind of pots regularly with people?  I mean I remember your UKIPT hand where you called all in otr vs the uber aggy 'muscly' young guy with A high.. know the hand I mean?

I know that pads is right with the

small ball poker involving lots of small bluffs and good sized value bets when the time is right and ul be fine.

I dont think I'm getting a 'I'm better than everybody else' default ego thing here... just uber likely here that he's not very good and in my experience I've seen a lot of 'gym goers' use the brute force bluff line...



Are none of you peeling in pos to 3bts with this kind of hand to weak players? (assuming he is)
Its not that I think he's bluffing pre, I don't.  But we have a really good hand if he only ever has a one pair hand by the river... which he will... a LOT.


Think about the total cost of the hand so far.. 8k out of our 37k, avg is 23k and then this strange river bet... 

(im not going to mention that obv for the rest of the table and their 'game flow' seeing me constantly winning with or without showdown was clearly aggitating some of them - so wouldn't have peeled anyone else at the table pre) because this is the ego 'side line' thinking that pads is talking about.

[George2Loose]

Yes I know which hand you mean.

There's a reason why they call them hero calls. You don't make them that often.

You say you're trying not to make assumptions but it sounds like you pretty much have.

That call was based on about 6-7 hours worth of play. A lot of dynamic between myself and villian. More to do with poker history than me calling cos of the way he looked.

otr I think you're levelling yourself. Live poker, esp in 50 quid comps, they play their hand. He jams cos he's got a good hand. Not cos he puts you on bottom pair. Or maybe he's made an assumption about you hero calling when he's got Aces full?

[jgcblack]

So true.............

I was shown and he got his 'I got you boy' face out..

Then I spend the next 30 mins getting the following from everyone at the table:

"so sick, you so obviously had a big flush there.. ul"
"I guess you must've had AQ, ul"
"omg.. did you have a house too?"
"gross hand, you didn't have KK did you?"


And I'm like  - no, I had toooo purrrrrr......

[Pugwashed]

Are none of you peeling in pos to 3bts with this kind of hand to weak players?

Not when he 3.5x your open and you have to play post flop with an SPR of 1.5ish

[jgcblack]

The sickest part is he played a hand exactly like this less than 20 mins later.. was snapped off on river by the 'kid' to my left and a weak 2nd pair won.

So I guess I was 'right' in my stereotyping that he can make that 'move' but I both mistimed it and tbh when he bluffed it wasn't for his whole stack. (probably important)

[stato_1]

You absolutely HAVE to fold to the 3bet pre. You are not deep enough for position to matter much at all, and have a bad hand for your stack size.

[SuuPRlim]

You absolutely HAVE to fold to the 3bet pre. You are not deep enough for position to matter much at all, and have a bad hand for your stack size.

Yup. Sorry John, I'm starting to sound like a broken record here, but I have another rule of live poker that it took me about 2 years to learn, and that is - BIG CARD vs WEAK PLAYERS. DMorgan used to laugh at me in vegas all the time when I was saying how I was doing so much better because I was only playing with good cards (lol) its so true.

Trust me though, I used to be exactly like this - check out my next blog if you wanna hear the tale of a hand i played in 2009 that will put even you're complex spewy-ness to shame

Just don't make life tough for yourself, exploiting people is so easy, have AK when they have AJ etc, you said you don't think he's getting out of line PF, and you're no way deep enough here to put him in horrible spots, but a little too deep and prolly have a little too much of an edge to be profitably punting off on a flop semibluff (which is how you'll flop equity most of the time) Just give him credit and wait for a better hand/spot to come along

[mulhuzz]

preflop:


fold>>>>4bet>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>call

since you called and didn't flop a straight flush, I'd be trying to get to showdown for 0 discs btw.

[pleno1]

preflop:


fold>>>>4bet>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>call

since you called and didn't flop a straight flush, I'd be trying to get to showdown for 0 discs btw.

disagree, call and 4bet are both equally bad with these stack sizes.

[EvilPie]

I've seen a lot of 'gym goers' use the brute force bluff line...

Are none of you peeling in pos to 3bts with this kind of hand to weak players? (assuming he is)

These 2 lines don't fit together very well.

I don't know many weak players who use the brute force bluff line.