Should we empty the clip?

[zerofive]

1/2 game. About £750 deep, villain covers. Not played much with villain, he seems like a decent thinking player, solid, but clearly capable of some moves. I guess he just thinks I'm a nit 'cause I haven't played any hands apart from two kings a few orbits ago.

Pre: In the cutoff with . Folded to hijack who makes it £8, I call, villain is on the button and 3bets £27. OR calls, I call.

Flop (£84)

Check check, villain bets £59, fold, I raise to £133 he calls. Obv my hand has decent equity, could be freerolling, can have AJ/QJ/J9 here so there are some gin cards. Taking combos out here because really I'd expect the 3bet, but could just be calling down with AK/KQ/KJ. If I'm facing one of those hands, I can realistically have TT or 88 in my range here.

Turn (£350)

Bet £192, villain calls. This is a really shit card as it's almost the ultimate brick. Maybe he randomly has backdoor spades or something, but I'm sure by this point he has AK or KQ.

River (£734)

? again, super bad card. Have £400 and change behind. Do we bomb it? We're polarised to missed draws or sets here I think, and there are way more of the former in my range, and if he has AK I'm just expecting him to sigh call it off plenty.

Thoughts on line/process/river decision?

[outragous76]

Def keep going!

I think the important part to this hand is the c/r on the flop as it makes sets part of your range

He can have missed a load, can't see him calling just 1 pair, he probs sweats a 2 pr hand

[pleno1]

definitely c/f river., He isn't calling turn and folding river, if he has kxdd which I assume you're thinking of perhaps folding then he 3bets flop decent % of the time. If he has qq/jj he probably folds the turn, he doesnt really have any combos of xxss.

c/calling river is even better than jamming as his value range should be super narror and theres a lot thats missed.

[outragous76]

definitely c/f river., He isn't calling turn and folding river, if he has kxdd which I assume you're thinking of perhaps folding then he 3bets flop decent % of the time. If he has qq/jj he probably folds the turn, he doesnt really have any combos of xxss.

c/calling river is even better than jamming as his value range should be super narror and theres a lot thats missed.

You calling off 200bbs on the river with kj?

[pleno1]

definitely c/f river., He isn't calling turn and folding river, if he has kxdd which I assume you're thinking of perhaps folding then he 3bets flop decent % of the time. If he has qq/jj he probably folds the turn, he doesnt really have any combos of xxss.

c/calling river is even better than jamming as his value range should be super narror and theres a lot thats missed.

You calling off 200bbs on the river with kj?

if i call turn then yeh.

[cambridgealex]

3b pre.

Slightly bigger on the flop, 145 imo.

Turn is good, I thought about check raising allin, but it's just hard to see us checking with 2pair+ so I don't think he's ever gonna b/f the turn.

River is a cf for sure. He's not folding very often.

[Pyso]

Not sure the tiny check raise on the flop achieves much, other than put you in this unnecessary world of pain. What were you hoping for? A fold? Once you brick the turn you are turning your hand into an opportunity to donk off a load of money.

You have ace high; he has something and he doesn't appear to want to fold. He also has position on you, giving you the opportunity to out-think yourself into the bargain. Added to that you don't actually know much about him. He knows (with the limited info that you have given him) that you are a nit and in his world you are unlikely to be barrelling with draws or air, therefore what he has he clearly thinks is better than what you have.

Sorry to look at it in such simple terms but it's Friday afternoon after a tedious week of work and those are my first impressions.

[SuuPRlim]

This is one of those weird spots, where it looks like he is bluff catching and made his decision OTT to call down turn and river, however this is quite stnd so it's prolly less likely that you'll fire the river as a bluff, in this instance he can call turn and fold river quite happily, because he thinks you have a decent amount of semi-bluffs OTT but not OTR.

OR, he truly has decided that once he calls turn he IS calling river, so it makes river bluffs bad from you, and river calls bad from him, so you can exploit him by chk/folding here and jamming your value hands.

I personally jam in these spots a lot purely because so many people give up I think you actually get a ridic amount of credit vs good thinking people and I really hate the idea of not having a bluff range here but if people really are going to call river on bricks nearly always when they call the turn then you havee the world's easiest exploitation by just chk/folding so this seems to be the general consensus.

I'm not even sure I'm in love with c/r the flop this deep as it's so hard to get stacks in and we're OOP, and I'd have defo 3b pf

[DMorgan]

3b or flat pre, either is fine I'd probably 3bet though.

You can go a bit bigger on the flop I think. Not sure why all these small sizings that are the nuts in tournaments have started turning up in 300bb deep cash games? Seen quite a few recently. They work great in tournaments where people often feel that they have to commit their stack to a hand or fold but this just isn't the case so much in deep cash games so I don't think its optimal to be using smaller sizings as a default. I don't think that necessarily applies to this particular hand cos you've set up bet/bet/jam stacks nicely, just a general observation.

Check/folding river as played. Doubt you get many folds from AK/KQ here to make jamming profitable

[SuuPRlim]

I agree with Dan. I always say that betting big should be your default and you need a reason to size smaller.

[Honeybadger]

What's all this check-fold the river advice about? Check-call the river, and expect to be good a substantial amount of the time. Given the turn action we have the nuts right?

[pleno1]

yeh agree, although i starred post with c/f as i wrote was becoming obvious it was a relatively clear c/call, altho i think we need to know a little more about his 3betting tendancies and an estimation on his wtsd.

[SuuPRlim]

What's all this check-fold the river advice about? Check-call the river, and expect to be good a substantial amount of the time. Given the turn action we have the nuts right?

Yh I mean a high % of the time this will go chk/chk surely?

Also LOTS OF PLAYERS are capable of valuebetting well in these river spots. I would be jamming JJ here and abso loving life

[Honeybadger]

Wtf! How do you have JJ by the river?

[SuuPRlim]

Wtf! How do you have JJ by the river?

You don't think its reasonable given the flop action for someone to end up with JJ in our villains spot here?