Another One Bites The Dust..

[vegaslover]

i always thought that the pros would use betfair most of the time because you would get a discount on the commision and the odds would seem better on there

win too much and you get the dreaded 20% minimum premium charge though

What turnover/winnings do you have to be achieving before the premium rate kicks in?

[bobby1]

I can't remember what the exact gross win figure is but if you have traded over 250 markets and contributes a commission on gross win that is less than 20% they will take the difference in Premium charges. The rough figure once you qualify for the PC is about 20% taken from your winning weeks.

 The real kick in the balls tho is this. Once you qualify for the PC you could win 1000 this week and pay 20%, next week you could lose 1000 and it makes no difference. The following week you could win 1000 again and once again pay 20%, then in the 4th week you lose 1000 again. Over that 4 week period you have won nothing but paid 400 quid in Premium charge.

They introduced a higher level of PC last year but the qualifying figure to paying between 40% and 60% was 250k total profit.

If you do a search for Betfair premium charge portal there is a link you can use when logged into Betfair that tells you exactly how you stand. I tried to cut n paste it but it has my details on it when I am logged in.

[redsimon]

I can't remember what the exact gross win figure is but if you have traded over 250 markets and contributes a commission on gross win that is less than 20% they will take the difference in Premium charges. The rough figure once you qualify for the PC is about 20% taken from your winning weeks.

 The real kick in the balls tho is this. Once you qualify for the PC you could win 1000 this week and pay 20%, next week you could lose 1000 and it makes no difference. The following week you could win 1000 again and once again pay 20%, then in the 4th week you lose 1000 again. Over that 4 week period you have won nothing but paid 400 quid in Premium charge.

They introduced a higher level of PC last year but the qualifying figure to paying between 40% and 60% was 250k total profit.

If you do a search for Betfair premium charge portal there is a link you can use when logged into Betfair that tells you exactly how you stand. I tried to cut n paste it but it has my details on it when I am logged in.

I dont think what you say is true.

I qualified for PC some time ago (thin)

Last few weeks I had losing weeks.

Last week I won £1391.27 Comm £33.78 PC shouldve been £244.53 acc to premium charge portal.

However because of losing weeks this week my PC is nil.

[bobby1]

I can't remember what the exact gross win figure is but if you have traded over 250 markets and contributes a commission on gross win that is less than 20% they will take the difference in Premium charges. The rough figure once you qualify for the PC is about 20% taken from your winning weeks.

 The real kick in the balls tho is this. Once you qualify for the PC you could win 1000 this week and pay 20%, next week you could lose 1000 and it makes no difference. The following week you could win 1000 again and once again pay 20%, then in the 4th week you lose 1000 again. Over that 4 week period you have won nothing but paid 400 quid in Premium charge.

They introduced a higher level of PC last year but the qualifying figure to paying between 40% and 60% was 250k total profit.

If you do a search for Betfair premium charge portal there is a link you can use when logged into Betfair that tells you exactly how you stand. I tried to cut n paste it but it has my details on it when I am logged in.

I dont think what you say is true.

I qualified for PC some time ago (thin)

Last few weeks I had losing weeks.

Last week I won £1391.27 Comm £33.78 PC shouldve been £244.53 acc to premium charge portal.

However because of losing weeks this week my PC is nil.

Did your losing weeks take you back below the gross win figure or did your lifetime total charges exceed 20% after the losing weeks?

On your portal what figures have red ticks or green ticks?

[redsimon]

http://www.elitebet.com/offcial-betfair-premium-charge-portal-link

was one I use.

the totals at took me back slightly below.

i guess if i was to use BF consistently your scenario could apply, just wish Betdaq had better liquidity

[bobby1]

http://www.elitebet.com/offcial-betfair-premium-charge-portal-link

was one I use.

the totals at took me back slightly below.

i guess if i was to use BF consistently your scenario could apply, just wish Betdaq had better liquidity

yes me too mate, I do try to do some stuff on there but it gets a pain constantly checking if you have laid or backed what you wanted.

Its another flaw in the PC thought process too, if you do fluctuate between one side of the figs and no PC and the other side and pay PC it is tough to know each week exactly where you stand until you have settled everything. You could go through one of the thresholds with the last few bets one week and then fall back below them str8 away in the next week but you have still paid at the cut off point.

[redsimon]

http://www.elitebet.com/offcial-betfair-premium-charge-portal-link

was one I use.

the totals at took me back slightly below.

i guess if i was to use BF consistently your scenario could apply, just wish Betdaq had better liquidity

yes me too mate, I do try to do some stuff on there but it gets a pain constantly checking if you have laid or backed what you wanted.

Its another flaw in the PC thought process too, if you do fluctuate between one side of the figs and no PC and the other side and pay PC it is tough to know each week exactly where you stand until you have settled everything. You could go through one of the thresholds with the last few bets one week and then fall back below them str8 away in the next week but you have still paid at the cut off point.

exactly, pretty messed up system tbh

[adnmdv]

In the long-run it's pretty irrelevant though, PC -> 20% (or whatever rate you pay).

[bobby1]

In the long-run it's pretty irrelevant though, PC -> 20% (or whatever rate you pay).

how do you mean irrelevant ?

[adnmdv]

It's not a flaw in the long-run as if you're paying the PC you're going to pay 20% overall unless ofc you manage to get over the threshold and then fall back below it forever...but this is pretty unlikely AND is going to have a negligible effect in the long-run as well.

[bobby1]

if you were a quid short of paying the PC and won £5001 the day of the cut off you would pay around £1000 in PC at 20%.

if the next week you lose £5002 you fall back below the threshold again but you have paid £1k in PC, its an extreme example but you could keep going over and falling below that week on week and pay a fortune in PC when you haven't actually won anything in that period of time.

The nearest figure I have to not paying the PC this week is my lifetime total comm+PC+other charges are 19.99%, if your figure is above 20% you should be ok. So if I were to win say 1k this week I would pay £200 in PC because my lifetime charges are 19.99% and not 20%. If my figure this week was 20.01% lifetime total I would pay bits.

It isn't just a case of how much you win, it's how much commission you generate as you do it. You could win 100k and pay nothing as long as your commission is good, I have friends who trade 1000's of markets on there a week but because each individual market creates commission they never get near paying the PC.

   

[bobby1]

No you couldn't.

Week 1: Win 5k, -1k PC -> 20% paid in charges
Week 2: Lose 5k, 0 PC -> 1k PC paid, 0k profit, so infinity% paid in charges
Week 3: Win 5k, overall position is 5k up, 1k PC paid, so 20% paid in charges, so no Premium Charge paid.

PC simply rounds up your %Charges relative to Gross Profit to the PC rate, so losses offset future PC.

You can also win 5k in the third week there but generate lots of commission on that 5k which raises your lifetime total charges paid above the 20%.

You could also already be above the 20% lifetime total charges one week but win 5k and pay very little commission and that takes you back below the 20% lifetime. The point is you cannot know for sure when you are so close to flipping between those numbers, which cannot be a good system to force on the customer.

I added this line to the post above after you had replied.

It isn't just a case of how much you win, it's how much commission you generate as you do it. You could win 100k and pay nothing as long as your commission generated is good, I have friends who trade 1000's of markets on there a week but because each individual market creates commission they never get near paying the PC.

How long have you paid the PC, have you flopped between paying and not paying or are you stuck right in it?

[vegaslover]

I can't remember what the exact gross win figure is but if you have traded over 250 markets and contributes a commission on gross win that is less than 20% they will take the difference in Premium charges. The rough figure once you qualify for the PC is about 20% taken from your winning weeks.

 The real kick in the balls tho is this. Once you qualify for the PC you could win 1000 this week and pay 20%, next week you could lose 1000 and it makes no difference. The following week you could win 1000 again and once again pay 20%, then in the 4th week you lose 1000 again. Over that 4 week period you have won nothing but paid 400 quid in Premium charge.

They introduced a higher level of PC last year but the qualifying figure to paying between 40% and 60% was 250k total profit.

If you do a search for Betfair premium charge portal there is a link you can use when logged into Betfair that tells you exactly how you stand. I tried to cut n paste it but it has my details on it when I am logged in.

So is that 250 trades per week?
ridic if so, i've just started getting back into it and only min betting atm but been trading plenting of positions

[redsimon]

I can't remember what the exact gross win figure is but if you have traded over 250 markets and contributes a commission on gross win that is less than 20% they will take the difference in Premium charges. The rough figure once you qualify for the PC is about 20% taken from your winning weeks.

 The real kick in the balls tho is this. Once you qualify for the PC you could win 1000 this week and pay 20%, next week you could lose 1000 and it makes no difference. The following week you could win 1000 again and once again pay 20%, then in the 4th week you lose 1000 again. Over that 4 week period you have won nothing but paid 400 quid in Premium charge.

They introduced a higher level of PC last year but the qualifying figure to paying between 40% and 60% was 250k total profit.

If you do a search for Betfair premium charge portal there is a link you can use when logged into Betfair that tells you exactly how you stand. I tried to cut n paste it but it has my details on it when I am logged in.

So is that 250 trades per week?
ridic if so, i've just started getting back into it and only min betting atm but been trading plenting of positions

http://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Betfair.Charges/

[TheWhisper]

I never play on the exchanges much and have never heard of this premium charge, what is their justification for it?
Just seems so wrong