Always an ace

[zerofive]

Villain in this hand is bald Andy for those of you who know him. For those of you who don't, I would describe him as loose passive aggressive, and he really turns up the spew when he starts losing a few buyins. As in he's probably playing 60/40/2. I've been beating him up all day and I just won a big pot from him. What would you do in the following scenario?

He's playing around £360, we cover. Table is 6 handed.

Folded to us in the cutoff with . We open to £7. The button 3bets to £27, villain calls from the big blind. We 4bet to £82. 3bettor folds. Villain calls.

Flop (£192)

Villain donk leads for £85 playing almost exactly £200 behind.

We block the nut flush draw and a lot of KJ/KT/KQ hands that might think they're good or fancy a punt. I don't honestly know if he's giving us credit for a big hand here or if he's just fed up of us dominating him.

[Honeybadger]

Given your read on how he is currently playing, I usually call and then call every turn too. I often get shown a rag Ace. But I often get shown a Q or a gutshot or something else random too.

[pleno1]

Given your read on how he is currently playing, I usually call and then call every turn too. I often get shown a rag Ace. But I often get shown a Q or a gutshot or something else random too.

/thread

[muckthenuts]

Given your read on how he is currently playing, I usually call and then call every turn too. I often get shown a rag Ace. But I often get shown a Q or a gutshot or something else random too.

This sounds pretty spewy. I would just fold. This flop should smack zerofives range in the face so i doubt he's gonna suddenly spaz out with a bluff, live players look at Aces and then they shutdown, always. We're sooo far behind any A he has (which he almost certainly isn't folding) and not even that dominating the range he'll get it behind.

[Honeybadger]

Given your read on how he is currently playing, I usually call and then call every turn too. I often get shown a rag Ace. But I often get shown a Q or a gutshot or something else random too.

This sounds pretty spewy. I would just fold. This flop should smack zerofives range in the face so i doubt he's gonna suddenly spaz out with a bluff, live players look at Aces and then they shutdown, always. We're sooo far behind any A he has (which he almost certainly isn't folding) and not even that dominating the range he'll get it behind.

I was basing my advice on the read that the OP has given on villain: "I would describe him as loose passive aggressive, and he really turns up the spew when he starts losing a few buyins", "I've been beating him up all day and I just won a big pot from him", "I don't honestly know if he's giving us credit for a big hand here or if he's just fed up of us dominating him" etc. I have played thousands of pots with bad players who are in exactly this sort of mood, and I'm sure you have too... but even if you haven't, it is not really that hard to get inside villain's head and see the world from his point of view.

In my experience, when a bad aggressive player who is losing, tilted and feeling frustrated donks out into the preflop 4bettor he does not always have top pair as a minimum requirement for so doing. I'm not saying that I'd be in any way shocked if he turned up with an Ace... on the contrary he is going to turn up with Ax a good chunk of the time. But by no means always, especially when he is in this sort of mood.

[PaintingByNumbers]

This sounds pretty spewy. I would just fold. This flop should smack zerofives range in the face so i doubt he's gonna suddenly spaz out with a bluff, live players look at Aces and then they shutdown, always. We're sooo far behind any A he has (which he almost certainly isn't folding) and not even that dominating the range he'll get it behind.

Excepting JT/T9/J9 ss, yes we are.

[EvilPie]

Usually this is a sigh fold.

Given reads I like to click it back and snap him off.

[pleno1]

wth stack sizes clicking it back and calling is the worst option imo. What are we trying to induce for an extra £60? he isn't going to be getting gutters in vs us but can continue with all of his bluffing range if we call.

call>>>>fold>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>raise imo

[SuuPRlim]

I think you should 4bet to a lot more preflop, the 3better can no longer get too out of line with the description of the BB overcaller so given we cant really induce too much i'd rather just make it very big, like £125~ and just hope the BB gets super stuborn or we've coolered the 3better.

As played, yh often an ace but folding isn't really an option. Jamming to try make him fold an ace is better than clicking it back for value imo as we know for definate he doesn't have AK and could easily be "finding out where he is" I'd just be calling though as its seems joke spewy to try make this type of player fold a top pair when he's losing and like Pleno says he's v likely to keep bluffing

[tight4better]

I'd also make the 4bet bigger, if he's spewing off like this let him spew more of his stack trying to hit 3 outs. There's a lot of dead money out for you to pick up and you could just make it look like AK because you're making a pot sized raise.

Problem is the donk lead, if he donks a fair % with bluffs then I'd call/call/call. Considering how spewy he sounds seeing as he's losing I'd probably just call anyway and sigh when I see  or w/e.

Personally I can't give someone with 60% VPIP spewing off credit for an ace when I hold KK, unless I have a super read.

[Mondeoman]

What honey badger said. Also I like your bet sizing.

[pleno1]

What honey badger said. Also I like your bet sizing.

yeh sizing is definitely fine, any bigger would be bad imo,

[SuuPRlim]

What honey badger said. Also I like your bet sizing.

yeh sizing is definitely fine, any bigger would be bad imo,

why would £125 pre be bad?

[Honeybadger]

why would £125 pre be bad?

From a theory perspective, the reason that such a large 4bet is bad is because we cannot ever be bluffing with this sizing. A 4bet to £82 is a leveraged bet. A 4bet to £125 is not. I realise theory is not especially important when playing against guys like this, so...

From a practical perspective, of course this sizing will sometimes work out fine for you when the big blind is in an extreme, tilted and stubborn 'I am seeing the flop, no matter what' mood. But unfortunately even the most tilted and stubborn players usually fold their QJo, A6, 33 (or whatever) if we force them to do so by making such a huge 4bet.

[PaintingByNumbers]

Who cares about theory when we are up against a 60/40/2 (the but is never going to 5b jam bluff/light in this spot, whatever we do).
All we care about is getting as much money in as possible in before our villain gets cold feet.

In this particular hand I agree with Honeybadger, but in general, Dave's advice is strong.

Bet big, bet often and, most importantly, bet fast.