late stages of mtt's

[dreenie]

I was looking for some advice for late stages in Mtt's.

There have been a few hands recently where I have been down to the last 30 odd in a tourney, and made marginal/bad, depending on opinions, plays and wanted to know if there was a way to improve or just some general advice to not be as spewey.

I haven't got the hand histories saved, but I remember some of them and obv I know it's not the same for each hand u play, as different players etc.

This is probably coming out all wrong but here are a few I remember.

** Hand # 4369658121 starting - 2012-04-04 21:27:54
** €10,000 GTD.[5897504]:Table 1 [Multi Table Hold'em] (100|200 NL - MTT) Real Money

dreeniee 82 sitting in seat 1 with 10823.00[Dealer]
1banditpanda sitting in seat 2 with 7825.00
rojostars sitting in seat 3 with 2630.00
tinyt4cos sitting in seat 4 with 5276.00
MEEEN_KNAAAS sitting in seat 5 with 10270.00
oyvindo65 sitting in seat 6 with 3300.00
SoloRolo1 sitting in seat 7 with 3885.00
EV_olution sitting in seat 8 with 3820.00
GeneralStorm sitting in seat 10 with 7593.00
1banditpanda posted the small blind - 100.00
rojostars posted the big blind - 200.00

** Dealing cards to dreeniee 82: ,
tinyt4cos folded
MEEEN_KNAAAS folded
oyvindo65 folded
SoloRolo1 folded
EV_olution folded
GeneralStorm folded
dreeniee 82 raised to 500.00
1banditpanda called - 500.00
rojostars folded

** Dealing the flop: , Ah,
1banditpanda checked
dreeniee 82 bet - 650.00
1banditpanda called - 650.00

** Dealing the turn: 10d
1banditpanda checked
dreeniee 82 checked

** Dealing the river: As
1banditpanda bet - 1234.00
dreeniee 82 called - 1234.00
1banditpanda shows: ,
dreeniee 82 mucks: ,
1banditpanda wins 4968.00 from the main pot

Is this an easy fold on the river?

[dreenie]

** Hand # 4372508839 starting - 2012-04-06 22:39:19
** €20,000 GTD REBUY.[5913420]:Table 3 [Multi Table Hold'em] (400|800 NL - MTT) Real Money

dreeniee 82 sitting in seat 1 with 95415.50[Sitting out]
spetsern42 sitting in seat 2 with 63080.00
Filurn sitting in seat 3 with 33729.00
Slick Jack sitting in seat 4 with 11655.00
sadza19 sitting in seat 5 with 20290.00
Cleric147 sitting in seat 6 with 23597.00
Alewa3Topora sitting in seat 7 with 46670.00
_luckyr1ver_ sitting in seat 8 with 23160.00
bhiohh sitting in seat 9 with 44301.00
Hangus sitting in seat 10 with 26294.00[Dealer]
dreeniee 82 ante'd - 80.00
spetsern42 ante'd - 80.00
Filurn ante'd - 80.00
Slick Jack ante'd - 80.00
sadza19 ante'd - 80.00
Cleric147 ante'd - 80.00
Alewa3Topora ante'd - 80.00
_luckyr1ver_ ante'd - 80.00
bhiohh ante'd - 80.00
Hangus ante'd - 80.00
dreeniee 82 posted the small blind - 400.00
spetsern42 posted the big blind - 800.00

** Dealing cards to dreeniee 82: ,
Filurn folded
Slick Jack folded
sadza19 folded
Cleric147 folded
Alewa3Topora raised to 1600.00
_luckyr1ver_ folded
bhiohh folded
Hangus folded
dreeniee 82 raised to 3650.00
spetsern42 folded
Alewa3Topora called - 3650.00

** Dealing the flop: , 10c,
dreeniee 82 bet - 4180.00
Alewa3Topora raised to 9570.00
dreeniee 82 raised to 14960.00
Alewa3Topora went all-in - 33370.00
dreeniee 82 called - 42940.00
dreeniee 82 shows: ,
Alewa3Topora shows: , 10s

** Dealing the turn:

** Dealing the river:
Alewa3Topora wins 94780.00 from the main pot

Should I be getting my whole stack in here on this flop, I felt this was spewey in terms of my stack, wanted to know others thoughts?

[dreenie]

** Hand # 4375019639 starting - 2012-04-08 22:45:15
** €100,000 GTD REBUY.[5814797]:Table 28 [Multi Table Hold'em] (400|800 NL - MTT) Real Money

yabandit sitting in seat 1 with 54333.00
1Jugaton sitting in seat 3 with 16254.00
Forza-Italia sitting in seat 4 with 42579.00
Railtard123 sitting in seat 5 with 97138.00
ministerbor sitting in seat 6 with 43127.00
pokerlars123 sitting in seat 7 with 41129.50
Koj-Gysto sitting in seat 8 with 27002.50[Dealer]
Frillor sitting in seat 9 with 23618.00
dreeniee 82 sitting in seat 10 with 17607.50
Frillor ante'd - 80.00
dreeniee 82 ante'd - 80.00
yabandit ante'd - 80.00
1Jugaton ante'd - 80.00
Forza-Italia ante'd - 80.00
Railtard123 ante'd - 80.00
ministerbor ante'd - 80.00
pokerlars123 ante'd - 80.00
Koj-Gysto ante'd - 80.00
Frillor posted the small blind - 400.00
dreeniee 82 posted the big blind - 800.00

** Dealing cards to dreeniee 82: As,
yabandit folded
1Jugaton folded
Forza-Italia folded
Railtard123 folded
ministerbor raised to 1600.00
pokerlars123 folded
Koj-Gysto folded
Frillor folded
dreeniee 82 went all-in - 16727.50
ministerbor called - 17527.50
ministerbor shows: 10d, 10h
dreeniee 82 shows: As,

** Dealing the flop: , ,

** Dealing the turn:

** Dealing the river:
dreeniee 82 shows: As,
dreeniee 82 wins 36175.00 from the main pot

Again is this really spewey, considering positions on the table and my stack size to the blinds?

[dreenie]

** Hand # 4375076524 starting - 2012-04-08 23:27:14
** €100,000 GTD REBUY.[5814797]:Table 28 [Multi Table Hold'em] (800|1,600 NL - MTT) Real Money

BigZ123 sitting in seat 1 with 69448.00[Dealer]
straightkall sitting in seat 2 with 62310.00
1Jugaton sitting in seat 3 with 17948.00
Forza-Italia sitting in seat 4 with 42935.00
Jackovich sitting in seat 5 with 49658.00
ministerbor sitting in seat 6 with 83601.50
pokerlars123 sitting in seat 7 with 54938.50
Koj-Gysto sitting in seat 8 with 43367.50
Frillor sitting in seat 9 with 12358.00
dreeniee 82 sitting in seat 10 with 18665.00
straightkall ante'd - 160.00
1Jugaton ante'd - 160.00
Forza-Italia ante'd - 160.00
Jackovich ante'd - 160.00
ministerbor ante'd - 160.00
pokerlars123 ante'd - 160.00
Koj-Gysto ante'd - 160.00
Frillor ante'd - 160.00
dreeniee 82 ante'd - 160.00
BigZ123 ante'd - 160.00
straightkall posted the small blind - 800.00
1Jugaton posted the big blind - 1600.00

** Dealing cards to dreeniee 82: ,
Forza-Italia folded
Jackovich folded
ministerbor folded
pokerlars123 folded
Koj-Gysto folded
Frillor folded
dreeniee 82 went all-in - 18505.00
BigZ123 folded
straightkall called - 18505.00
1Jugaton folded
straightkall shows: , As
dreeniee 82 shows: ,

** Dealing the flop: , ,

** Dealing the turn:

** Dealing the river:
dreeniee 82 shows: ,
straightkall wins 40210.00 from the main pot

Is this a really bad shove, The way I was thinking was I was late position, and the bb had similar stack to me, if one of them did wake up with a hand, I would have a chance vs all high cards with no pairs, should I be thinking this way at this stage?

[dreenie]

There was a hand on Ipoker, but I don't know how to get the history...

It was on Saturday in the $109 doublestack, we are on the final, I have 34 bigs and am in the BB with AJ.

Cut off has 20 BB and has been fairly solid, only thing I seen him do is raise UTG+1 on the last table with A4o and bet 3 streets vs me with Ace high.

He min raises, and I decide to shove, is this really bad/spewey?, I just decided to put him to the test with the positions on the table and felt AJ was minimum I was doing it with 88+ - AJ+.

Thing is I am going out a lot in these last stages doing this, regardless of there holdings, (obv they are waking up with better), but I wanted to know is this where I am going wrong, and what can I do to improve my chances when I am in these sort of positions?

Any feedback really welcome, Tyty.

[dreenie]

I posted the same hand twice earlier, think I've deleted it, but this is the other one,

** Hand # 4372648188 starting - 2012-04-07 00:19:35
** €20,000 GTD REBUY.[5913420]:Table 34 [Multi Table Hold'em] (2,000|4,000 NL - MTT) Real Money

lucky_ace898 sitting in seat 1 with 203279.00
heyou23 sitting in seat 3 with 58530.00
107zidan10 sitting in seat 5 with 62103.03
Hudders 1 sitting in seat 6 with 84661.50
GNU10 sitting in seat 7 with 36360.00
Degen Donkey sitting in seat 8 with 149800.00
AImost sitting in seat 9 with 114956.00
dreeniee 82 sitting in seat 10 with 92051.00[Dealer]
lucky_ace898 ante'd - 400.00
heyou23 ante'd - 400.00
107zidan10 ante'd - 400.00
Hudders 1 ante'd - 400.00
GNU10 ante'd - 400.00
Degen Donkey ante'd - 400.00
AImost ante'd - 400.00
dreeniee 82 ante'd - 400.00
lucky_ace898 posted the small blind - 2000.00
heyou23 posted the big blind - 4000.00

** Dealing cards to dreeniee 82: , As
107zidan10 folded
Hudders 1 folded
GNU10 folded
Degen Donkey folded
AImost raised to 8278.00
dreeniee 82 went all-in - 91651.00
lucky_ace898 went all-in - 200879.00
heyou23 folded
AImost folded
lucky_ace898 shows: ,
dreeniee 82 shows: , As

** Dealing the flop: , ,

** Dealing the turn:

** Dealing the river:
dreeniee 82 shows: , As
lucky_ace898 wins 198780.00 from the main pot

[PutYouOnAK/AQ]

A lot of these hands are going to be player dependent, eg the first hand with A8, I think your open is fine but without any info on the player we don't know how wide his calling range is here, tight players will never peel worse than our hand from the SB so if he's tight we need to be cautious post.  I don't like checking back the turn tbh, a lot of people CB for pot control in these spots but I think it just puts us in really bad river spots, because when they lead the river we can get bluffed a lot/ they can be value betting worse and they might actually have a flopped set or 2 pair.  The best thing to do in these spots is to bet the turn (vs a tight player or an average player they may c/r flop as a bluff but players don't c/r bluff turns and rivers other than the really good ones), so if we get raised on turn or river we can happilly fold, so after we bet the turn small we can check back the river for cheap showdown.  Basically by betting the turn we keep the initiative and they are going to check to us 95% of the time on the river.

As you played however I think the rivers a fold, we have a bluff catcher and a hand that is easily dominated, loads of 2 pair combos have got there and if he had a gutshot OTF then he now has a straight or a pair and he won't be turning this into a bluff.

Ok now the Kings hand.  Your 3bet pre is too small IMO, when 3betting from oop in comps I generally make it 2.5 the OR, so if he makes it 1600 I make it 4k as a minimum, if we have position then we can make it smaller but we don't so pump it up!  Flop Q102 rainbow, this is where its really player dependent, if the guy isn't very good then you can go either way I think you can click it back to induce or just call call call.  I don't think an average player is gonna show us qq here very often, 1010 is possible however sooooo many online players go ballistic with top pair that I'm probably never folding here.  This might be bad but I think we're going to be winning loads. Ul in that hand.

46sooooooooooooooooted.  Good shove ul, happy to shove up to 15 bigs with any suited connectors from HJ onwards.

A8 3bet shove is again very player dependent, if he's opening a lot then we should be happy shoving this, if he's not however just bin it and wait for a better spot.

A3ss I think this shove is good if the opener again is very wide but I'm not sure be interesting to here what other players say.  BTW don't think its bad when you 3bet shove light and someone wakes up with a hand behind you, its the most frustrating thing ever and happened to me for like 3 months straight, its just variance.  Hope I helped and didn't talk too much nonsense.

[dreenie]

A lot of these hands are going to be player dependent, eg the first hand with A8, I think your open is fine but without any info on the player we don't know how wide his calling range is here, tight players will never peel worse than our hand from the SB so if he's tight we need to be cautious post.  I don't like checking back the turn tbh, a lot of people CB for pot control in these spots but I think it just puts us in really bad river spots, because when they lead the river we can get bluffed a lot/ they can be value betting worse and they might actually have a flopped set or 2 pair.  The best thing to do in these spots is to bet the turn (vs a tight player or an average player they may c/r flop as a bluff but players don't c/r bluff turns and rivers other than the really good ones), so if we get raised on turn or river we can happilly fold, so after we bet the turn small we can check back the river for cheap showdown.  Basically by betting the turn we keep the initiative and they are going to check to us 95% of the time on the river.

As you played however I think the rivers a fold, we have a bluff catcher and a hand that is easily dominated, loads of 2 pair combos have got there and if he had a gutshot OTF then he now has a straight or a pair and he won't be turning this into a bluff.

Ok now the Kings hand.  Your 3bet pre is too small IMO, when 3betting from oop in comps I generally make it 2.5 the OR, so if he makes it 1600 I make it 4k as a minimum, if we have position then we can make it smaller but we don't so pump it up!  Flop Q102 rainbow, this is where its really player dependent, if the guy isn't very good then you can go either way I think you can click it back to induce or just call call call.  I don't think an average player is gonna show us qq here very often, 1010 is possible however sooooo many online players go ballistic with top pair that I'm probably never folding here.  This might be bad but I think we're going to be winning loads. Ul in that hand.

46sooooooooooooooooted.  Good shove ul, happy to shove up to 15 bigs with any suited connectors from HJ onwards.

A8 3bet shove is again very player dependent, if he's opening a lot then we should be happy shoving this, if he's not however just bin it and wait for a better spot.

A3ss I think this shove is good if the opener again is very wide but I'm not sure be interesting to here what other players say.  BTW don't think its bad when you 3bet shove light and someone wakes up with a hand behind you, its the most frustrating thing ever and happened to me for like 3 months straight, its just variance.  Hope I helped and didn't talk too much nonsense.

TY, makes sense, thanks for taking the time to post.

[WPIL]

What are the buy ins for the torneys - very intrested in this as this is a major problems area for me - late stage in an MTT normally with a Big Stack (seems a lot easier with a Short Stack but obviously shouldn't be)
just saw that one of the torneys was for 109 dollars (did you sat in) as I would have thought at that level you should have a good late game, game so to speak?

[WPIL]

1st hand based on him just check calling, I would fire the turn, especially as it is late stages (although Blinds are only 100/200?) - I have a tendancy which I am trying to correct of taking the passive line of checking behind them on the turn and then thinking I have f**ked up the hand by the river when they get there or by loosing value when they don't as they often bluff off on the end but of course as someone else send depends on their tendancies and also the buy in hence why I asked

[WPIL]

Kings
Pre Bet Bigger
U just got unlucky for him to flop well, don;t think I am getting away from that as you know he doesn't have Queens (or even Tens online!)

[dreenie]

What are the buy ins for the torneys - very intrested in this as this is a major problems area for me - late stage in an MTT normally with a Big Stack (seems a lot easier with a Short Stack but obviously shouldn't be)
just saw that one of the torneys was for 109 dollars (did you sat in) as I would have thought at that level you should have a good late game, game so to speak?

Hey, some are 16.50e rebuy's a 100e f/o and a 109$ double stack. I satellited into the100euro, bought into the others.

[dreenie]

1st hand based on him just check calling, I would fire the turn, especially as it is late stages (although Blinds are only 100/200?) - I have a tendancy which I am trying to correct of taking the passive line of checking behind them on the turn and then thinking I have f**ked up the hand by the river when they get there or by loosing value when they don't as they often bluff off on the end but of course as someone else send depends on their tendancies and also the buy in hence why I asked

Thanks for the post, thinking more and more about the 1st hand, the guy is a decent reg, so don't think he is ever betting worse, I kinda sigh called cos I have 3 aces, which I think is a bad reason.