the value cut

[pleno1]

horrible, terrible, probably french or spanish whale playing $400 opens mp1, we have been 3betting his relentessly, but decide to flat with K10dd from the button. A semi aggressive regular 3bets to $30 playing $390. Whale time outs and we call.

Flop is

 

Reg checks, we bet 41, he calls relatively quickly

Turn is  
We check behind

River is  

Reg checks
We bet 117 into 128

Thoughts?

[cambridgealex]

dont like it. can't see us taking a bcb as a bluff very often, doubt we're getting heroed by worse very often at all.

[jezza777]

Might get a call from lower pp's ? Bet size seems heavy but encourages the call sometimes.

[TommyD]

I'm agreeing with Alex here, plus I'm kind of curious to see what he's iso-ing/squeezing with assuming his 3bet was trying to get HU with Mr Whale.  Bit of a freaky line by him to refuse a c/bet and call instead, followed by double checks.  I don't like it when someone takes a funky line and I don't know what kind of a player he is to do this, makes me really want to see those cards and like Alex says, we're not getting heroed by worse enough IMO.

[Honeybadger]

Bet check bet lines suck. They make you ridiculously easy to play against. Opponents are able to get to showdown and realise their equity cheaply and without pressure.

There are exceptions of course, but this is not one of them. If you want two streets of value you should be betting flop, betting turn and checking river.

[SuuPRlim]

good bluff line imo

I agree we should bet the turn

[DMorgan]

Agree with others that I don't really see a reason to choose river over turn for a second bet. Since you don't give any further reads I assume he's just a standard reg, no particular history so he's not likely to c/r turn and I don't see him taking this line with overpairs really ever.

Looks more to me like he's decided to 3bet T9, JT etc and now he's got too much showdown value to bluff so he's just going to pot control/bluff catch with it. As played though once you get to this river I like your sizing.

[Honeybadger]

good bluff line imo

I agree we should bet the turn

Dave, this is a terrible bluff line.

And I know what you're thinking: "if it's bad for value then it's good as a bluff", right?

And you would be correct some of the time, but that is not the issue. The reason this is a terrible bluff line is because the alternative bluff line of bet flop, bet turn, jam river is so, so, so much better.

[SuuPRlim]

good bluff line imo

I agree we should bet the turn

Dave, this is a terrible bluff line.

And I know what you're thinking: "if it's bad for value then it's good as a bluff", right?

And you would be correct some of the time, but that is not the issue. The reason this is a terrible bluff line is because the alternative bluff line of bet flop, bet turn and jam many rivers is so, so, so much better.

that's what i said....

[Honeybadger]

good bluff line imo

I agree we should bet the turn

Dave, this is a terrible bluff line.

And I know what you're thinking: "if it's bad for value then it's good as a bluff", right?

And you would be correct some of the time, but that is not the issue. The reason this is a terrible bluff line is because the alternative bluff line of bet flop, bet turn and jam many rivers is so, so, so much better.

that's what i said....

Lol. No it's not! xxx

[SuuPRlim]

you said we should bet bet chk

I said it'd be a good bluff line ^^^

That's what i meant, I did NOT mean we should go around bet/chk/betting with no hand and bet/bet/chking when we do have a hand because that, as you well know would be silly.

Bet check bet lines work nicely as bluffs but ONLY when the river card changes the dynamic of the hand, imo. when you get a river card that strengthens your turn range and weakens his flop calling range. B-)

[Honeybadger]

you said we should bet bet chk

I said it'd be a good bluff line ^^^

That's what i meant, I did NOT mean we should go around bet/chk/betting with no hand and bet/bet/chking when we do have a hand because that, as you well know would be silly.

Bet check bet lines work nicely as bluffs but ONLY when the river card changes the dynamic of the hand, imo. when you get a river card that strengthens your turn range and weakens his flop calling range. B)

Ohhhhh!!! Lol.

I obviously thought you were referring to OP's line in the actual hand. I was a bit surprised tbh and thought you'd had a brain fart. And actually it was me having the brain fart! Feeling extremely sheepish now. How do you do embarrassed face emoticons?

Edited to say: although tbh, having re-read your post it is actually really ambiguous what you were referring to exactly so I don't feel quite as silly...

[SuuPRlim]

yeah don't feel stupid having looked at it myself I can see how it comes across but in my head when I wrote it I assumed it was obvious, which it certainly isn't

What I meant was if i was bluffing I would bet turn bet river lol with THIS hand I might chk the river back but it's a nice way to de-polarise our range on this river because I wouldn't expect the villain from the tone of the OP to expect us to value jam this hand.

[Honeybadger]

yeah don't feel stupid having looked at it myself I can see how it comes across but in my head when I wrote it I assumed it was obvious, which it certainly isn't

Cool beans x

What I meant was if i was bluffing I would bet turn bet river lol with THIS hand I might chk the river back ut it's a nice way to de-polarise our range on this river because I wouldn't expect the villain from the tone of the OP to expect us to value jam this hand.

Villain would have to be a fish for this to be good. That said, lots of villains are...

[DMorgan]

In conclusion: You're both a bit silly