PLO Tourney Hand

[Karabiner]

[quote author=Beaver808 link=topic=57491.msg1552906#msg1552906 date=1334740573


As for your hand Karibina, pre-flop seems like a wide call unless we hit, but now that we've missed the flop I would imagine check/fold would be my play unless there's a club on the board and the hit's the turn
[/quote]

We have position remember and 9's are just as good as K's especially black ones.

[TommyD]

Back to the original hand.

Now I've opened with this I'm flatting.  We have no read on the villain so I'm assuming a reasonably strong 3bet OOP position range here and we're probably going to be facing a C-Bet on most flops if we're talking the standard AAxx or KKxx.  Now I'm here if I hit top two+ or more favourably a good draw I'm going with it and putting my tournament in the middle.  If I whiff then nh Sir, fold and move on.

Personally I think the hand is right on the margin of my opening range UTG, some tables and indeed in some moods I would just fold.  If I was opening it, I would be min raising.  This allows us to see a flop for cheaper when potted and if we like it with the stacks sizes how they are we can still get most of it in without losing that bit extra when we don't like it.

Also to put my crone pedant hat on, wouldn't a pot by the BB pre be 16k total, an additional 11k and not 15k total?  It's a real pedant point and not really that relevant though.

[Karabiner]

Yes it was an additional 11k which I did report correctly when I peeled it but not in the OP.

So to recap I have AJT8 ccss and the flop is QT4r, there is 31k in the pot which is almost exactly my remaining stack.

UTG has checked and I elected to check back with middle pair a double belly-buster and two BD flush-draws.

[SuuPRlim]

Dave on those rare occasions when I do ever put a hand up here I am always hoping for some input from you and  looking forward to your analysis as I respect your opinions and appreciate the time you put into your replies.

I do not consider you to be either toothless or a crone, I was merely trying to illustrate in a humorous manner the fact that I was girding my loins and putting a hand up.

The toothless crones are those that I see in my mind's eye laughing as my mistakes are illustrated by the experts as the hand gets dissected.

My open was 2.5x and I see now that a min raise would have played better.

oh yh, think i over-reacted a bit lolol

you did 2.5x as well, should prolly read the HH properly mid-rant as well ! I think 2.5x'ing is fine, prolly slightly preferable over a min tbh.

Yh, call now and try flop something good, If you have to chk/fold the flop you still have 30big blinds witch is more than plenty, you can go away make a cup of tea and some pasta and still have plenty

I elected to peel the extra 11k in position and we see a QT4r flop.

UTG checks...

POT.

We'll be going with this one, jolly nice if they want to fold mind.

If you got your chips in then you played the hand perfectly imo.

Can't wait till tikay posts a hand an we all get to berate him, I've been practising.

"MOVE YOUR MANACLE FROM LEFT EYE TO RIGHT ON THE TURN IMO"

and so on.

Also yh I got that LF's comment was TinC but he should defo have used a smiley, knowing Luke very well he doesn't have a single impulse to be mean to anyone ever (except DMorgan which is fair enough) He should however if he was going to post, posted something about the hand, there isn't a player with a blonde account BETTER at PLO tourneys than him imo.

[SuuPRlim]

UTG has checked and I elected to check back with middle pair a double belly-buster and two BD flush-draws.

nonononononono

This is where people make huge mistakes, one of the main fundamentals of PLO is realising your equity and denying other people theirs.  In this case if we pot here (we have like 1.2x pot total so we're eff. all in) we're 1) GTD to realise our equity with 8 nut outs and strong BD equity - not to mention a pair which is important as it gives us immediate equity + it blocks(ish) one of the sets and some 2pair combo's, 2) we might make him fold hands with good equity against us. It's going to be hard for him NOT to have 25-25% equity vs us here at the very bottom of his range, even his chk/folds will still have some equity, those chips in the middle are too important to risk him hitting a turn he likes or EVEN worse us hitting a turn card we don't like and maybe having to chk/fold.

There is no play left with the stacks as they are, our only play is to hit the pot button, hope he folds and then get there is he doesn't.

[Beaver808]

As for your hand Karibina, pre-flop seems like a wide call unless we hit, but now that we've missed the flop I would imagine check/fold would be my play unless there's a club on the board and the hit's the turn

We have position remember and 9's are just as good as K's especially black ones.

Very true, we have a black 8 in our hand- good point!!

I'm going with the Check>jam if a black 9 or K hits the turn - we've commited 1/3 of our chips to see this flop so a free card seems like a bonus to me - although we do probably turn our hand face up if we jam a K,9 or appropriate black card.

[Beaver808]

UTG has checked and I elected to check back with middle pair a double belly-buster and two BD flush-draws.

nonononononono

This is where people make huge mistakes, one of the main fundamentals of PLO is realising your equity and denying other people theirs.  In this case if we pot here (we have like 1.2x pot total so we're eff. all in) we're 1) GTD to realise our equity with 8 nut outs and strong BD equity - not to mention a pair which is important as it gives us immediate equity + it blocks(ish) one of the sets and some 2pair combo's, 2) we might make him fold hands with good equity against us. It's going to be hard for him NOT to have 25-25% equity vs us here at the very bottom of his range, even his chk/folds will still have some equity, those chips in the middle are too important to risk him hitting a turn he likes or EVEN worse us hitting a turn card we don't like and maybe having to chk/fold.

There is no play left with the stacks as they are, our only play is to hit the pot button, hope he folds and then get there is he doesn't.

And that's why I love the PHA forum - education FTW!!!!

[TommyD]

Yes it was an additional 11k which I did report correctly when I peeled it but not in the OP.

So to recap I have AJT8 ccss and the flop is QT4r, there is 31k in the pot which is almost exactly my remaining stack.

UTG has checked and I elected to check back with middle pair a double belly-buster and two BD flush-draws.

Sorry Karabinder, I missed your flop post on this thread, my mistake.

Pot all day long for me, we've picked up enough equity here to go with it plus we have all that lovey fold equity right now which we are hoping is quite effective.

[tikay]

Learning loads from this thread.

I may even respond to one eventually, with my own critique. I'll wait till Dave goes on holiday first though. And Greeky.  My arsehole is just fine, as is.

[SuuPRlim]

Learning loads from this thread.

I may even respond to one eventually, with my own critique. I'll wait till Dave goes on holiday first though. And Greeky.  My arsehole is just fine, as is.

I will never go anywhere where there isn't internet.

Bolded sections indicating possible "over-shares"

Watched the show last night teacake, loved it!

[Karabiner]

Learning loads from this thread.

I may even respond to one eventually, with my own critique. I'll wait till Dave goes on holiday first though. And Greeky.  My arsehole is just fine, as is.

I think I may have to tweak my guillotine allegory as it's more like putting your arse on the block.

[EvilPie]

As for your hand Karibina, pre-flop seems like a wide call unless we hit, but now that we've missed the flop I would imagine check/fold would be my play unless there's a club on the board and the hit's the turn

How exactly have we missed this flop?

  +   looks pretty damn good to me.

I'd be putting the lot in here hoping for a fold but knowing I've got decent equity against pretty much anything but a set.

[Beaver808]

As for your hand Karibina, pre-flop seems like a wide call unless we hit, but now that we've missed the flop I would imagine check/fold would be my play unless there's a club on the board and the hit's the turn

How exactly have we missed this flop?

  +   looks pretty damn good to me.

I'd be putting the lot in here hoping for a fold but knowing I've got decent equity against pretty much anything but a set.

I missed the , see a few posts on where my opinion changes. There was also no mention of a club on the board, all I had was QT4r - I agree that we have hit this flop, but being a nit I'd still prefer to see the turn before jamming, even though it's been pretty well explained why that's wrong...

[SuuPRlim]

As for your hand Karibina, pre-flop seems like a wide call unless we hit, but now that we've missed the flop I would imagine check/fold would be my play unless there's a club on the board and the hit's the turn

How exactly have we missed this flop?

  +   looks pretty damn good to me.

I'd be putting the lot in here hoping for a fold but knowing I've got decent equity against pretty much anything but a set.

I missed the , see a few posts on where my opinion changes. There was also no mention of a club on the board, all I had was QT4r - I agree that we have hit this flop, but being a nit I'd still prefer to see the turn before jamming, even though it's been pretty well explained why that's wrong...

fwiw even without the 8 in our hand once it's checked to us we have to hit the pot button for the same reasons.  Pair/Nut-Gutshot (don't have it in me to EVER say nutshot on a poker forum) and 2 BD FD's is too much, gotta go with I'm afraid

Pre-flop is defo fine, although you could fold to the 3bet if you really wanted, I think calling IS better as you still have 30big blinds if you miss which in PLO tourneys where there are no antes is pretty comfortable.

[DMorgan]

"MOVE YOUR MANACLE FROM LEFT EYE TO RIGHT ON THE TURN IMO"

lol its possible that tikay gets manacled before he posts a hand in PHA