Omaha - what would you do?

[Derbylad]

Game 2/2 PLO at DTD.

So i've talked this hand over with a few regulars and got mixed opinions...
Me and the villain both have stack size of 400+

I'm in the BB with    

Pre flop action is a raise to 10 with 5 callers.

Flop:  
[Pot:50]

Hero leads for 30,
Folds round to the cut off who makes it 100 to go.

The villain in question is a guy called Habib, from what i've seen he's a good competent player however has little bluff tendencies so im positive he has 36 in his hand.

considering stack sizes and that we're not pot committed after our initial 3/4 pot bet are we ever getting away from this hand? Interested to see what action people would take.... I will post results and decisions later

[tight4better]

Something about donk betting that really bothers me. Do you donk if you have 36 in this spot?

Last time I played with habib he played like an absolute spag getting hundreds of £ in with second pair gutshot draw, dunno if I instantly give him cred for 36.

[Pinchop73]

Fold pre. Check flop. We're going to need to house up to win this pot with 5 others in the hand.

Donking here is just plain bad. What does it achieve? Your folding out worse than a straight, and your getting raised by the straight. You now have to fold, so you may as well have just eat three £10 notes, it would be just as pleasurable.

[Skippy]

We've got a gutshot to the nuts, too, remember.

[SuuPRlim]

Pot back get it in now, you're flipping vs 36 and doing great vs everything else. He might even be raise/folding A3 or something you never know.

I would prefer to chk/raise as I think you'll get some bets from non-36 hands as well that might fold or call one more and fold turn etc which would be ideal.

Donking isn't terrible because on these boards people chk back loads of stuff because there is an obvious striaght out there, like 44, 22, 54, A3 etc where we'd like to get bets in vs these hands.

[Pinchop73]

Meh, we have 11 nut outs actually eh, so yeah pot/get it in factoring in fold equity (which is increased by the fact we have a blocker to the nut straight).

Fair assessment Dave, my bad.

Ignore my oroginal post OP, it is early. Sigh

[Skippy]

Pot back get it in now, you're flipping vs 36 and doing great vs everything else. He might even be raise/folding A3 or something you never know.

I would prefer to chk/raise as I think you'll get some bets from non-36 hands as well that might fold or call one more and fold turn etc which would be ideal.

Donking isn't terrible because on these boards people chk back loads of stuff because there is an obvious striaght out there, like 44, 22, 54, A3 etc where we'd like to get bets in vs these hands.

An Omaha noob writes: Why is raising to get it all in on the flop better than calling and doing something on the turn?

What do you do if instead of having 5568 you have 55KT, which according to my excellent knowledge of Omaha equities putting it in propokertools you are a 40/60 dog?

[Pinchop73]

An Omaha noob writes: Why is raising to get it all in on the flop better than calling and doing something on the turn?

Not wanting to answer for others, but imo its because we realise our equity when we hit. If we call and a 4 hits, we stand a much much smaller chance of getting the lot in vs a straight that's drawing dead.

[SuuPRlim]

An Omaha noob writes: Why is raising to get it all in on the flop better than calling and doing something on the turn?

the main reason I wouldn't wanna call and get funky on the turn is because we're OOP and unable to control the action, i.e he can chk/back A3 OTT, or if he's bluffing with 667* with a bd fd he can chk the turn back when he makes a FD etc and control his equity which is never ideal in PLO. If we were in position I'd fancy just calling as a much more viable option. I think the spot is really simple, we've flipping at worst and there is already money in there so just go with and have an easy life And like Pinchoppppp says we don't give him the chance to hero fold on a 7 or a pair up.

What do you do if instead of having 5568 you have 55KT, which according to my excellent knowledge of Omaha equities putting it in propokertools you are a 40/60 dog?

With this hand, had I chosen to donk it without any nut gutters or blockers (which I don't think is good 5way) I would just call, because our villain hasn't potted it we're getting paid to call even if we have to fold the turn its still ok.

The more I think about it, the more I like the donk with the SPECIFIC hand we have here. As it will chk through a lot 5 way and we're happy to get decent money in vs 63 - I think it might even be the better option (obv its pretty un-balance-able as a strategy but that's not really a worry) However, and no offence intended OP, but to donk and then be un-sure how to proceed indicates you most likely donked the flop for the wrong reasons - the only reason to donk this flop is for straight up value. This isn't that easy of a spot though, it just comes down to understanding equities - Get hold of "Odds Oracle" from propokertools and run hands like this through that, it's so easy and it'll help you in so many spots in the future, I've done tons of work on odds oracle and as a result I snap knew we needed to be all-in/not folding here.

[Derbylad]

My thoughts for donking were that i didn't want to see it checking round. On a low rainbow board its more likely to happen.
My action after the 100 was to re-pot. My count was 11 outs twice, and another 3 outs once, and if i b/c and it pairs up i'm getting no value from his hand ranges on the turn or river other then lower sets.

[Derbylad]

This isn't that easy of a spot though, it just comes down to understanding equities - Get hold of "Odds Oracle" from propokertools and run hands like this through that, it's so easy and it'll help you in so many spots in the future, I've done tons of work on odds oracle and as a result I snap knew we needed to be all-in/not folding here.

nice one

[GreekStein]

What do you do if instead of having 5568 you have 55KT

you fold pre very quickly

[Derbylad]

Click to see full-size image.

Here's the actual hands.... not sure what im like vs 63 with re-draws but either way it seems like the right decision.
Unfortunately it brick bricks #runbetter

[SuuPRlim]

the more redraws the obv the worse it is for you, but i wouldn't worry to much about that in live 4card PLO people are merrily raising naked 63 here so as you say run better

My thoughts for donking were that i didn't want to see it checking round. On a low rainbow board its more likely to happen.
My action after the 100 was to re-pot. My count was 11 outs twice, and another 3 outs once, and if i b/c and it pairs up i'm getting no value from his hand ranges on the turn or river other then lower sets.

pretty much dont need the thread if this was your internal monologue during the hand you got it spot on imo

[Derbylad]

Well i had a chat with a couple of the other regs about it and some said they'd fold in my position to the re-raise due to the effective stack sizes. Was intrigued to see what people thought, i think its more in the event if we give him credit for hands like 3456 etc, or similar hands that reduce the board pairing are we too much of a dog. Cheers for the words of wisdom, i'll bring my running shoes next time.