DTD150 - Fight or Flight?

[jjandellis]

Correct equity play versus Preserving equity in a (deep) MTT?

The reason I ask is that, a few times recently, I have played (well) in early levels and pretty quickly gained a decent stack. I'm then getting into these spots in pursuit of, not just a big, but a GIANT stack. This has usually resulted in me being knocked right back down to average or half average stack - obv not great!

OK, so 150 Deepstack this weekend.

I turn up at Start of Level 2 and by Level 6, the average stack is about 32k and I have a little over 50K. I think I have a good image. I've played strong hands fast and not shown any fear to 3bets etc. For the most part I have not shown, though one hand may have tainted my image a little (although I did nothing massively out of order)

Blinds 200/400/25

UTG raises to 900
UTG+1 calls
MP calls
I'm in cut off with   and call.
(Villain) Btn calls
SB folds
BB calls

Pot is 5625

Flop  

So I have top Pair, flush draw and backdoor straight draw.

UTG bets 2000
UTG + 1 calls

I raise to 7000 - the aggressor is rather passive when faced with opposition and I think UTG + 1 is pretty similar. The reason I'm flatting hands like this pre - in a community pot - is to see flops like this....so I see it as my duty to drop the hammer (or else just fold this crap pre lol)

Btn raises to 17000

BB folds
UTG & UTG+1 both fold

Pot is 33625
Villain has another 18 k back

Villain has not done anything out of order so far and seems solid. I'm putting him on either an (unlikely) overpair (88, discounted all others), 3 5/5 8 for the straight, possibly 6 6 or 4 4 for the set.

If I call he's obviously gonna ship it in on the turn, so I see this as an all in or fold.

If I shove I either get really lucky and he folds...but realistically he's calling. So I did the Math on the equity a pot with him all in offers me...which I made as 35% (since done it properly and it says 35.16%). I reckoned I was good for 40%...but actually got this wrong...seems to be 39.20%

So I shipped it all in

He calls, show 35o and holds.

Cash game I love this spot and go for it EVERY time. MTT though???

Questions:

1. Already got a big stack...do we want the giant stack and make the equity call? Or do we preserve equity for a  better spot and, dwell.....<sigh>... fold?

2. Is it possible to call and then c/f bearing in mind I'd still have about 32k??

3. Is this a symptom of playing too much cash??? Styles crossing over too much etc...

4. If you ARE making an equity call, do you make one with such small margins??

[rfgqqabc]

Whilst a pair and a flush draw looks like a big hand, it may be the case, in spots like this, where it just doesn't live up to expectations. Against his assigned range you have a flush draw, and backdoor house outs/house blockers.

1. Already got a big stack...do we want the giant stack and make the equity call? Or do we preserve equity for a  better spot and, dwell.....<sigh>... fold?

If its +ev its +ev. However, in some cases we can make a case for taking the lower variance route, this may be true in your spot, but it depends on many factors such as your edge, quality of table and likeliness the table breaks etc.

2. Is it possible to call and then c/f bearing in mind I'd still have about 32k??

10k to win 33k, isn't a good enough price, when we are 99% to only see one card.

3. Is this a symptom of playing too much cash??? Styles crossing over too much etc...

Possibly, it also is partly due to people seeing certain hands as monsters when sometimes against nut ranges, they simply are not.

4. If you ARE making an equity call, do you make one with such small margins??

I haven't found a spot yet in 2 years of play where I've decided against a certain move if it is seen as +ev,

[peejaytwo]

4. If you ARE making an equity call, do you make one with such small margins??

I haven't found a spot yet in 2 years of play where I've decided against a certain move if it is seen as +ev,

no need to push tiny edges on a tourney table where your perceived edge on the table is bigger. your tourney life is worth more.

[rfgqqabc]

4. If you ARE making an equity call, do you make one with such small margins??

I haven't found a spot yet in 2 years of play where I've decided against a certain move if it is seen as +ev,

no need to push tiny edges on a tourney table where your perceived edge on the table is bigger. your tourney life is worth more.

Gl finding a spot this close tho. Only one i think was KK into Ladys AA in the deepstack where i got cold 4balled, but when i say tiny edge i mean, it was the easiest fold of all time, despite having cowboys.

If we had 89ss on a 26s7s flop and were 100% guy would get it in with AA otf, i might just flat and take a lower variance line for tourney life, but otherwise its hard to see a spot where i decide, tourney life > greater than reaching out and taking the chips in the middle. These spots do occur, i wanted to 5bet jam on a guy in Jan but decided to fold cos its close and my table was fantastic and i was playing well, but otherwise its just not cricket to say tourney life > taking the chips in the middle.

[pleno1]

What Adam? You're surely not advocating a fold here? If you flat pre, questionable, then we have to raise/get it in here. It's live poker and we can't expect folds so r/f when they continue so much and way over vale hands seems like an absolute trainwreck of a disaster

[rfgqqabc]

What Adam? You're surely not advocating a fold here? If you flat pre, questionable, then we have to raise/get it in here. It's live poker and we can't expect folds so r/f when they continue so much and way over vale hands seems like an absolute trainwreck of a disaster

We have ran into either a straight or a set tho, don't have stove with me but not in very good shape, not sure on exact price, we need 2 to 1 and it looked less. Atm half my posts are revision filled gibberish tho so wouldn't surprise me if I'm way off track

Edit. Looks just short by 3k so probably fine to get in

[pleno1]

regarding your questions about the bolded bits/italics, it was adam not myself sorry.

[dakky]

If we had 89ss on a 26s7s flop and were 100% guy would get it in with AA otf, i might just flat and take a lower variance line for tourney life, but otherwise its hard to see a spot where i decide, tourney life > greater than reaching out and taking the chips in the middle. These spots do occur, i wanted to 5bet jam on a guy in Jan but decided to fold cos its close and my table was fantastic and i was playing well, but otherwise its just not cricket to say tourney life > taking the chips in the middle.

def def get this in on flop if you can as you are a favourite on the flop, but not on the turn if you brick, and if you do hit turn he might well shutdown.

[rfgqqabc]

It's definitely a call here. Got my stack sizes wrong. However, I think my point with 15k more gr valid, our hand looks huge but vs a flop range this nutted, its a flush draw really.

Table breaking may be important if its really soft and breaking soon we might choose conservative approach with a decent chance lo double coming anytime. If the table is awful and your locked in, get the chips flying, esp with reentry.

[DMorgan]

Well if he's never raise/folding which I think is reasonable then for the purpose of pot odds we can assume that he has jammed leaving us 28k to call to win an 52k pot giving us 1.85 to 1 so we need ~35% equity to call and we have 42.5% vs just 2pr+ hands. Start adding in some heart draws and it gets better.



Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

  59,400  games     0.001 secs    59,400,000  games/sec

Board:
Dead: 

   equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    42.512%     41.94%    00.57%             24912          340.00   { 9h7h }
Hand 1:    57.488%     56.92%    00.57%             33808          340.00   { 77-66, 44, 85s, 76s, 74s, 64s, 53s, 85o, 76o, 74o, 64o, 53o }


---

[pleno1]

%s dont matter met, if you're beat you're beat.

[DMorgan]

lol can't deal with blonde today

[rfgqqabc]

We might see lol flats from 2ps or heart draws I guess but still get in

[kinboshi]

%s dont matter met, if you're beat you're beat.