mr creative

[pleno1]

dont have history, scoop, 2 tables left.

we open from an 11m stack with 22 to 120k at 30k/60k, tight guy 3bets from co to 285k form a 5m stack, we peel. its his first 3bet of the comp so far and has taken pot control lines with tptk and has a low aggression factor. our image is batshit.

flop is  , we bet 2777777 (2.77m) thoughts?

[pleno1]

hand for reference.

hero raises pre, cbets, checks turn and mistakenly bets 168k into 1.1m pot where he meant to bet 1.6m about 20 hands previously. every hand played was bet with weird numbers.

[rfgqqabc]

Ask Stato how easy it is to get levelled by this shit. Pretty cool, and dirrrrrrrrrrty which is nice

[SuuPRlim]

you stack all his overpairs this way gtd.

Thing is though we all the weaker hands in his range off the hook here. Unless you are sure his 3b range is super strong (not 77 or AJs for eg) and never lite. Also for this to be > checking you'd need to be sure his Cbet frequency without a hand, and his tendency to pot control (say with QQ here) is frequent as well. Not sure these are actually good assumptions but I do like the play, it's cool, and it puts him in quite a coffin at this stage. Also if he is aware of his image and has a good idea of his perceived 3bet range being very tight and value-heavy then this make make this bet look very strong.

Cool though, all the same.

[outragous76]

Hate sizing

I quite like a donk into this villian, but you are giving him such a huge chance to get away when he has missed by betting more than 50% of his stack. If you are going to do that you might as well open jam to trade the batshit image and let him level himself into calling off the AK part of his range

If he has the AA KK type hands - you will get him anyway. This hand is way too strong to let him get away with hands he might otherwise fold

[mondatoo]

I skyped Pads to say he might want to recheck his OP 

[fitzy_1]

If he has the AA KK type hands - you will get him anyway.

disagreeeeeeeeee

the guy likes pot controlling and its not inconcievable that he checks back flop with AA cuz if he checks back its so much harder for him to lose his stack which is huge for him and he can now bluffcatch or get value on turn/river. in general it just makes playing the hand more comfortable for him if he checks flop, not to mention if our image is crazy he knows hes gonna be put in rly tough spots if he gets checkraised on flop and the worst that happens if he checks back is he has to call 2 streets which is much more appealing to him.

if he cbets and pleno calls and he has AA no spade and a brick spade rolls off on the turn, you think we're 'getting him anyway'? if any 9TJ7 or any spade rolls off on the turn we dont stack him imo. if pleno checkcalls flop and top pair pairs the board he prob just checks back even if it is better to bet just cuz he knows it sucks balls if pleno checkraises. and if any of the others roll off straight/flush/2pair possibilities just got way higher. and even if these spots are all better to bet/fold aces the last thing anyone wants to do is betfold aces vs someone checkjamming a turned draw but they dont wanna bet call aces drawing dead either.

in conclusion i think its REALLLLLY FRIKKIN HARD to stack aces in this spot vs a guy who hasnt shown much aggression and enjoys potcontrolling

tbh i think his most likely line with aces here is gonna be check back flop call turn call river...in which we dont stack him. he has to cbet for us to have any chance to stack him and i rly dont know if he does cbet that often

[rfgqqabc]

No matter how much he enjoys a check back, I'd be super surprised to see him check back dem aces here. Just think about the feeling you get when you get AA/KK or a set. Heart racing, maniac opens pre, you get the 3bet in and see a 289ss flop? Chances you check back?

SPR is 10, so we need to get a funky bet in at some point, whether this be a c/r or an overbet. But even then not sure how even the biggest nit folds when he bets and gets raised with our image. Despite this, we need to be pretty dam sure his 3bet range is extremely tight for something like this to work.

Close between this, check/shove (or just mahoosive raise) and playing the hand in a standard fashion. We may see a slightly more +ev route from the standard line, but does the chance of stacking him with one of the first two methods make it better in terms of the comp overall? I realise this makes those more +ev but hopefully this makes enough sense

[SuuPRlim]

I dont think we can put him in any tough spots OTF, if we chk raise he either calls or goes all in surely? Seems pretty easy for him

[Honeybadger]

Am I misreading this HH or did you just donk the flop for ~5 times the size of the pot?

[outragous76]

Am I misreading this HH or did you just donk the flop for ~5 times the size of the pot?

having flopped a set with a maniacal image

[pleno1]

Am I misreading this HH or did you just donk the flop for ~5 times the size of the pot?

That is the suggested line yes

[Honeybadger]

Am I misreading this HH or did you just donk the flop for ~5 times the size of the pot?

That is the suggested line yes

That's what I thought... Wasn't sure whether I was hallucinating or not 

Anyway, it's an interesting line and I can see the point of it - to make it as likely as possible that you stack an overpair. However, I am not 100% sure that this is the most effective way to go about achieving this objective.

If you choose to donk then you can quite happily bet a more 'normal' amount and still get stacks in by the river simply through bet, bet, jamming. And tbh donking for half the effective stack makes little sense at all... since it is pretty much the same as going all-in, and even the most clueless opponent will realise this. The only thing it does is take away any chance of him ever bluff raising your donk with air (granted this is not especially important given that you are pretty sure he has an ovepair, but it is still a factor).

Basically, I like the fact that you have considered donking this flop vs this guy, rather than just automatically checking. But I think the 5x pot bet is just you wanting to be cool

[SuuPRlim]

I think the 5x pot bet is just you wanting to be cool

BUT PLENO IS COOL STOOOOOO-AT! He has a cool job, a hot girlfriend and a dog! If had those 3 things I'd never even consider betting 5x pot, I'd actually consider chk.folding here, cos I can.

[pleno1]

I have 2 dogs.


So weird u think it's me wanting to look cool. I think if we donk flop to a normal size it's a lot more difficult to stack overpaid than both overbettong and c/r simply from a pot to stack ratio thing and as there are so many ugly turn cards, 7 8 9 10 j q that can really escape him nevermind flush run outs etc.

Definitely not tryi I look cool and think comment is a little out of touch.

Results echecked back jj and king came on the river. Ah yeh if he has 10s to qq he can fold on a and k rivers whilst he never does web we overbet