2nd day, DTD £500 WSOP Warm up event

[Wilfie]

So I have recently doubled up to around 130K when this hand occurs. I will try and get stack sizes correct but they will be from memory!

Live MTT

£500 buy in

308 runners, ~65 remain, 27 paid

blinds 1200/2400 300ante

Hero stack 130,000

Villian1 stack 150,000

Villian2 stack 45,000

Hero is seen as tight

Villian1 has been active LAG showing down mostly suited connectors / A rag suited.

Villian2 is fed up and waiting for a spot to shove.

Villian1 raises to 5,100 from the cut off.

Villian2 calls from the Sb and I call from the BB with 


flop     

Hero checks

Villian1 bets 7,000

Villian2 shoves for about 40,000

What's your move?

Cheers

Will

[FUN4FRASER]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

[outragous76]

Call and sigh call it off from V1 if you have to

It V1 is opening wide, he is prob c-betting just as wide - esp on that board.

Unlike fraser - id suggest you crush the majority of V2 "J" holdings (surely he jams AJ pre if he is " fed up and waiting for a spot to shove")

If he has a FD - then so be it.

If V1 has you beat - well there will be cards to save you 

[outragous76]

Cant decide if I would actually call off V1 reshove - needs more thought

[Wilfie]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

Cheers, this is what I did but it took me a while and I wasn't happy about it. I knew V1 was going to cbet virtually any board and I intended to check raise but the SB confused me with his shove.

[outragous76]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

Cheers, this is what I did but it took me a while and I wasn't happy about it. I knew V1 was going to cbet virtually any board and I intended to check raise but the SB confused me with his shove.

Why bother putting in more chips pre flop if you arent going to make hay when you hit the flop? - If the above is your MO in poker then fold pre is your only option

[Wilfie]

Call and sigh call it off from V1 if you have to

It V1 is opening wide, he is prob c-betting just as wide - esp on that board.

Unlike fraser - id suggest you crush the majority of V2 "J" holdings (surely he jams AJ pre if he is " fed up and waiting for a spot to shove")

If he has a FD - then so be it.

If V1 has you beat - well there will be cards to save you 

Thanks, after I folded V1 called with  and V2 showed    . V1 took the pot when the turn and river where blanks. Maybe I should have just folded preflop.

[railtard1]

call the 40k and fold if villain 1 shoves! We look so strong when we cold the 40k that villain 1 will / can fold some hands that beat us, so when he does shove, we can happily fold.

[tikay]

Surely if V2 .....

Has 20xBB

Is fed up waiting for a spot to shove

And it's raised to 3xBB by an active lag, mostly showing down suited cons & A-Rag.....

V2 just re-shoves pre if he has A-J?

[stato_1]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

Why is it unlikely he would have QJ or JT? Surely this is the single most likely thing for him to have here.

[chiphungry]

I think the only hands villain 2 has in his range are suited connectors ( , etc) for a big draw, JQ, J10 (possibley AJ if he is really tight) and a set of 3's or 5's, either way your hand is beating the vast majority of his range so I would call and if villain 1 shoves over the top I would fold.

[outragous76]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

Why is it unlikely he would have QJ or JT? Surely this is the single most likely thing for him to have here.

def that

[FUN4FRASER]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

Cheers, this is what I did but it took me a while and I wasn't happy about it. I knew V1 was going to cbet virtually any board and I intended to check raise but the SB confused me with his shove.

Why bother putting in more chips pre flop if you arent going to make hay when you hit the flop? - If the above is your MO in poker then fold pre is your only option

What your suggesting with this comment Guy is that if you call and hit your flop then you have to go " all the way " everytime without taking into account any table action or other factors. (there must be time youve called a raise with something like AJ /A10 etc and after Axx flop the action had led you to believe you are dominated so youve folded ? )

Possibly you may be right to call or jam but with the initial raiser still lurking too  my line (rightly or wrongly) would be dwell fold

[outragous76]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

Cheers, this is what I did but it took me a while and I wasn't happy about it. I knew V1 was going to cbet virtually any board and I intended to check raise but the SB confused me with his shove.

Why bother putting in more chips pre flop if you arent going to make hay when you hit the flop? - If the above is your MO in poker then fold pre is your only option

What your suggesting with this comment Guy is that if you call and hit your flop then you have to go " all the way " everytime without taking into account any table action or other factors. (there must be time youve called a raise with something like AJ /A10 etc and after Axx flop the action had led you to believe you are dominated so youve folded ? )

Possibly you may be right to call or jam but with the initial raiser still lurking too  my line (rightly or wrongly) would be dwell fold

Id have a plan of what I was going to do preflop Fraser. It would take something exceptional for me to call pre OOP then fold to the action as described here (for the reasons given). In game I probs fold if V1 reshoves, but I think he is folding teh majority of the time to our flat.

The point I am making as a wider issue for the OP, is if your game is generally on the tighter side, then fold hands like this in this spot, because you will never be able to play it profitbaly post flop OOP against an agressive opponent who is just going to put you in tough spots post flop (because of a persons tighter tendancies). This is a far better default option that peeling check folding just because we have a "pretty" hand.

There is nothing wrong with playing tight, but playing hands like this OOP to an aggro competant player is just spewing chips if you are tight.

[stato_1]

If you call, you are hoping hes got qj or J10 ? (not likely) or the best case scenario a flush draw

More likely is he has AJ /KJ or even a slowed play over pair plus you still have the possibility the opening raiser can re jam

Fold

Cheers, this is what I did but it took me a while and I wasn't happy about it. I knew V1 was going to cbet virtually any board and I intended to check raise but the SB confused me with his shove.

Why bother putting in more chips pre flop if you arent going to make hay when you hit the flop? - If the above is your MO in poker then fold pre is your only option

What your suggesting with this comment Guy is that if you call and hit your flop then you have to go " all the way " everytime without taking into account any table action or other factors. (there must be time youve called a raise with something like AJ /A10 etc and after Axx flop the action had led you to believe you are dominated so youve folded ? )

Possibly you may be right to call or jam but with the initial raiser still lurking too  my line (rightly or wrongly) would be dwell fold

This is a valid point and people definitely do this. However the action on a jack high flop when you have KJ has been a c-bet from a LAG who's prob cbetting this board 100% of the time, and a jam from a tilted guy looking to get it in, hardly the conditions to start thinking about making big laydowns. If you're going to fold given these conditions then you should fold pre-flop