Perfect reads not enough?

[Oxford_HRV]

okay this sickens me. live tourney I have myself down as a decent person for live reads at the table, as it goes so far I have one showdown pot where I lead the agression with 77 on 234KQ all streets vs A5
I've been seeing about 1:7 flops.

RIGHT THE HAND IN QUESTION...
the table maniac is an old Italian looking guy and is hyper aggressive/passive after 4th street he limps for 200
folds to me in the HIJACK I make it 500 to play knowing I have respect to my left.
Folds to BB who flats, young guy looks like he has game. made a couple squeezes to isolate calling stations previously. so I'm sure a flat here means he is holding a weak hand to draw with as I imagine in his position I'd 3bet any decent pair big suited ace ect..

level 3 100/200 30 min clock £20 1R/A (10k stacks)
me 10700
bb 14k
utg just under 10k


FLOP  1600 in pot
BB decides to 10sec tank before checking. utg checks. I lead 1/2 pot 800
BB throws in the chips quite assertively. I now think he thinks I'm bluffing and wants to float me n take it down later with a C/R
UTG comes for the ride.
TURN CARD 4000 in pot
they both check again to me I lead for 900 wanting the C/R from BB and he does it!!!
BB makes it 3k
UTG now tank flats this bet like the maniac he is
I now SHIP my 9k making it 6k to go
I get a sigh call from BB
UTG then decided he is coming along
BB shows 
UTG shows 
I made sure I was last to show and I couldn't belive what's hands I'm getting called off with
NOT SO HERO shows
RIVER

I have no explanation to how they made this play. especially BB as I'm sure just from his body language he knows the game well and is never good in this spot!?

I found this hand so unorthodox it had to be posted

[George2Loose]

Fold pre

[Oxford_HRV]

I'm not asking where I went wrong or advice, I'd still make that shove and play my 92o
just when playing this hand for stacks how can theses guys make these calls against my play.
you saying I shouldn't of jammed here if I could of had a real time view of my opponents cards on the turn..?

[George2Loose]

Was the 92 at least suited?

[JK]

Why in hell are we doing this? Assuming you think you have an edge in that comp, so why the fuck do we put ourself in this spot in the first place? The whole point in having an edge in a tournament is to not take ridic high variance lines with no hand/outs, but exploit our edge in lots of small pots and use that image to win big ones when we have it. Just fold pre for christs sake.

Just do not do this. Ever. EVERRRR. Unless Im at your table, then please carry on. Its plays like this that change people from +EV to fish. Yeah maybe youve made a read that nobody has it, but theyre live fish and not folding a good flush draw EVER, and the other guy has a pair and a straight draw ffs. You do realise these are the guys that sit and moan how card dead they are after 3 hands?

Btw its not called 4th street. Its called Middle Position 2. 4th street is a term used in stud for the second round of betting where players have 4 cards (hence 4th street).

/rant

(Apologies if I sound a bit of a dick here, just dont understand why people do this lol. Was meant to be alot more constructive but Im tired and grumpy )

[Rod]

Sorry mate, but I have to say your read is anything but perfect, it is in fact terrible imo (no offense meant of course). You should know that you are not likely to be getting many folds here in live poker especially as you have described the EP limper. He is likely to call you with a bare high spade which you can't beat.

Not sure about the BB, pre is OK I guess and his raise on the turn is OK if that was his plan all along (although he should have of course shoved really) but he should know about the EP position player too so I would be putting him on a stronger range if I am honest. He has to call when you ship it which is why he should shove rather than raise 3K. His play is questionable with the EP station in the pot.

Based entirely on this one hand and the way you describe it the game sounds VERY easy to beat, get a good hand and bet it, But raising an EP limper, who is basically a calling station, with 92o is not the way to do it, you don't even need live reads here. Just don't bluff in these games especially when there are still cards to come.

If this is a level - wp btw.

[JK]

If this is a every post youve made containing HHs is a level - wp btw.

FYP

[strak33]

Broadway?

[Honeybadger]

Obviously OP is a gimmick/joke account and is levelling. To be fair, there is some gold in this post. Particularly love how due to his live reads he is expecting the turn c/r, and then is of course happy when it occurs.

However the post is still a fail, because the river should have come the . That way hero deservedly wins the pot, after completely outfoxing both his opponents by inducing them to put their money in against him with just one pair and King high respectively.

[SuuPRlim]

I think you got unlucky

[Ricardov83]

I would have folded ths hand preflop as, even with my bluffs in position against a weak player, it is still nice to be able to make a hand.

There really is no need to be a hero. Just make hands and get paid.

[bobAlike]

Your perfect read should have told you that live donks like myself don't like folding.

[Oxford_HRV]

For JK - what I am implying is the maniac UTG will spew off pre and on the flop with air but gets away at the turn (4th street) when faced with major aggression.

For Rod - how is my read terrible? I believe me and BB seemed to just get too tangled with each other and had never expected UTG to come for the ride, let alone check calling me down then over calling my all in and BB's call. Id like to ask you if with no history with these players and a non donk image at the table would you not have jammed the turn if you knew what they were holding!?

For - Jjandellis not sure that anyone has ever watched me in even one session or tourney.

I'd just like to note FYI blondes, I have a seriously strong feeling when it comes to live reads. before I even saw my hole cards here I knew from my position I could use my chips effectively unless faced with a 3bet pre from any of the 4 to my left, just from sitting down at the table seeing my players I instantly know who I can bluff, who would think I know how to play, who doesn't
know, who plays abc, who is a donk. just from little things like asking the dealer if this is table 1 seat 4, or straight on to telling the person next to them a bad beat story or whipping out their music and getting their serious face on. I then recall how people put chips in, softly/rolled off/ flicked in/ spread out ect.


Any how I then represent a decent board respectively. I stay clear of certain flops and don't just start firing thinking okay he flat here must be weak.
On this board an ace or flush draw is certainly in my range, I knew maniac was no good.  and just from the look on BB face he wanted to outplay me.

I want to become as good as possible and understand as much as I can.  as soon as I have a so called 'roll' for playing live things should go well.
Unless I just go on a spewy mayhem because I'm in love with outplaying people :/

[WPIL]

What?

[Jon MW]

... just from sitting down at the table seeing my players I instantly know who I can bluff, ...

well obviously you don't

And I'm pretty sure that answers the question about having a terrible read on the game and the players