ITT I potentially get my spew out

[pleno1]

Ok, probably going to get alot of stick for this. Don't have the hand history but will try and make it as simple as possible.


Btn (€700) opens to €12  - bad reg
I (€780) flat sb with    - image is very out of line
BB (€735) squeezes bb to €56, sb flats, I flat - BB is a good reg who doesn't 3bet a huge amount (5% over small sample, 0% squeeze over small sample)

Flop

 

I check, OR checks, btn checks

Turn

 


I want to bet turn with the intention of shoving non diamond/board pairing rivers.

Thoughts?

Also if you don't like it, whats your turn line?

[parker]

puke turn... can you see a worse card?!

i like the line but its so wet you need a complete brick on the river.

a lot of or range is ak?

[dakky]

Ok, probably going to get alot of stick for this. Don't have the hand history but will try and make it as simple as possible.


Btn (€700) opens to €12  - bad reg
I (€780) flat sb with    - image is very out of line
BB (€735) squeezes bb to €56, sb flats, I flat - BB is a good reg who doesn't 3bet a huge amount (5% over small sample, 0% squeeze over small sample)

You've been out of line but how is BTN responding? What's his 3 and 4b percentage? Probably just 3bet pre as I want the initiative OOP.

[pleno1]

We don't really have a sample to go into post flop or even pre flop dynamics.. My standard is to 3bet from the sb but had been flatting some hands earlier vs him from btn vs sb and was just right in this spot to flat but usually I 3b/fold.

We have a dynamic with the bb that he is flatting alot vs me in position and floating alot of flops.

more interested on turn/river action vs what should be capped ranges/

[Mondeoman]

Bit confused are you proposing to shove river to try and get people off ak?

[pleno1]

Bit confused are you proposing to shove river to try and get people off ak?

yer, think hes capped at AK and its 3 way super wet board and we're deep.

[Patonius2000]

Bit confused are you proposing to shove river to try and get people off ak?

yer, think hes capped at AK and its 3 way super wet board and we're deep.

Fold pre is a good default imo. I thought you meant bet/bet for value, doubt people fold AK on blank rivers? Also if you're trying to get him off AK, assuming you only get called by the 3ber ott you should def jam board pair rivers. Expect he'd bet sets otf, so only fh combo he can have his QQ and he bets that a decent amount too?

[Mondeoman]

Bit confused are you proposing to shove river to try and get people off ak?

yer, think hes capped at AK and its 3 way super wet board and we're deep.

gl getting folds from AK on a blank river.  Also remember that a lot of AK's will have a diamond so they'll be more inclined to call.
You get much more value from your hand by value betting it or bluff catching.  I mean if you had nothing then maybe start bluffing but you actually have a pretty strong hand.

River paired board is kind of meh - its hard for opponent to have a full house but its also just as hard for you to have a full house....and i still dont think a lot of players fold AK.

[pleno1]

I think board pairing (ESPECIALLY Q) is a mandatory river jam as a bluff as he should have 0 calling range as he has no full houses or flushes in his range.

I think diamonds on the river become a c/f.

I think blank cards are the most interesting, I assume that people would fold AK on the river but perhaps my assumptions for 200bb is a little off (hence the thread )

[Mondeoman]

Don't necessarily disagree with betting paired boards however you oppos can have full houses QQ from villain who 3 bets and Q10/QJ etc from villain who calls 3 bets.  Assuming youve bet turn and then bombed river the problem you have is you're saying on the turn i've got a flush then on the river you're saying i've a full house.  I mean you're not likely to value bet Q10 on the turn are you?  or are you?  You're much more likely to check call with sets/two pair on the turn imo.

Having said all that if you can overbet a paired board river i reckon you fold out AK most of the time.  Anything like a 75% pot bet still gets called imo.

[pleno1]

yeh thanks again. i think i just c/f q10 ott

[Pugwashed]

Hate pre, we're oop with 9 high without the initiative and we can get squeezed a decent amount and have to fold and then we're making an even bigger mistake when we don't fold after getting squeezed. Especially when he's opening 3x on the button. As played I think its gonna be tough for you to get him to fold AK when most of your reasonable flush combos are blocked by the board (and potentially his hand too). It's also possible he doesn't cbet bad flush draws 3way on this texture, he might not have flushes very often but definitely some non zero and not insignificant amount of the time imo. I might c/c turn, c/f blank rivers and donk jam board pairing rivers or diamonds (vs 3bettor) (we might need to be getting to showdown on blank rivers more than we actually are for this to be good tho) (FPS FTW).

[SuuPRlim]

yh I cantt blame you but not folding to the 56 is for sure a mistake imo

[pleno1]

200bbs deep vs a nutted range? surely we can make this profitable?

[SuuPRlim]

200bbs deep vs a nutted range? surely we can make this profitable?

really don't think you can OOP tbh. I  played a hand very similar recently actually (was tho so way better ) where I knew deep down at the time it was bad then tried to defend it afterwards and everyone i spoke to said "nahhh" as it happened I ended up getting $14k in and showing down 9 high which kind of backed up everyone's point r.e postflop playability.