Checking dark - for and against

[parker]

Seems to be a habit i have got myself into.

Without writing an essay there are a few reasons i do this.

1. When you play at luton g and 400 people limp preflop and you have some flopability with 46 suited its just fun.
2. Against noobs (no insane edge) it can confuse them.
3. You kind of gain back position even though youre out of position.
4. 1,2 and 3 can mean you get a free card for drawing hands.

Because I have an insane edge in all pokerz im fairly confident in tough spots. Im confident of my opp range, how my range is perceived, what they think i know about their range and what they think i know they know about my range vs their range. and breath....

Ive had two spots recently in comps at luton where checking dark has worked an absolute treat.


villian min opens mp (has done this with ak,kk and q4 so could be anything) . i flat bb with k4dd. board akx.

check dark, bet call. turn brick. check dark, confused look on face from fishie and then check back.

check dark river. river brick. villian bets 3/4 of my stack and i hero he insta mucks. reason being i know he bets all his aces on the turn.

wether i would have got as far as the river to make the call had i not checked dark i dont know?!

a lot of very good players tell me checking dark is very bad. Im sure theyre right and im wrong as their insane edge is bigger than mine but i struggle to see exactly why.

given i dont do this everytime. but with hands like 910, 10j or under pairs to an ace flop sometimes i find it buys you an exrta street to find out exactly where you are, catch up improve or just disguise your hand.

thoughts?

[celtic]

Can't see how checking dark is ever a good thing.

[BulldozerD]

Can't imagine ever wanting to do it, looks pretentious as well

[George2Loose]

Just looks really weak

[outragous76]

Anything that limits the options you should of had cant be good

[pokerfan]

You need to balance your checking dark range, looks like you call a bag of spanners pre and don't know what to do next.

 

[pokerfan]

The first time someone dark checked me I just said I'm all in in the dark, he snapped on k44 holding k4 

[parker]

You need to balance your checking dark range, looks like you call a bag of spanners pre and don't know what to do next.

 

i wouldnt say that lol

i used to be a nit thats got creative. im not a lunatic

my fear is of check give up.

does anyone have an argument for?

[AndrewT]

Can't imagine ever wanting to do it, looks pretentious as well

Very much so - this is why I never do it live. It works much better online.

[parker]

The first time someone dark checked me I just said I'm all in in the dark, he snapped on k44 holding k4 

HERO

gg

[parker]

Can't imagine ever wanting to do it, looks pretentious as well

Very much so - this is why I never do it live. It works much better online.

that really isnt something ive considered. im as down to earth as they come (i like to think)

[zerofive]

In the example you gave, it seems like you could have checked with the "I give up" look on your face, and villain would have gone crackers. You said you know he'd bet an ace on the turn so you've assessed the hand correctly and your line was going to be check/call on three streets so checking dark doesn't make much difference, it just looks weird.

given i dont do this everytime. but with hands like 910, 10j or under pairs to an ace flop sometimes i find it buys you an exrta street to find out exactly where you are, catch up improve or just disguise your hand.

Checking dark for the illusion of position is a complete fallacy. Let's take a hand like .

Check dark. Flop is . He checks back. Damn, that looked like a great flop to donk lead. Not to worry let's reassess the turn, but make sure I check dark so that he doesn't get suspicious that I nailed the flop.

check dark. Turn is . He bets. Err.... Eugh... Oh... I have absolutely no clue what his hand range could be, because I failed to narrow his range on the flop. I've got some equity though, so call, I guess?

Check dark. River is . He bets. Oh god what have I done. I set fire to some money on the turn and now I'm clueless. If only I'd been in a position to bet one or more street...

It feels like not only did we fail to gain a positional advantage, but also we failed to utilise some of the tools in our arsenal to help us play hands like this out of position.

[parker]

lesson learned

edit: apart from celtic, chompy and mcgenius as it tilts their souls.

[Yian]

Myabe betting dark. There must be a spot where this could be useful. I doubt checking dark is ever a good thing.

[SuuPRlim]

Myabe betting dark. There must be a spot where this could be useful. I doubt checking dark is ever a good thing.

Betting dark can literally never be an optimal move putting in more money than your opponent with less information. Unless someone could suggest an example where it might be a good idea??