blonde poker forum
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 11, 2025, 01:25:56 PM

Login with username, password and session length
Search:     Advanced search
2262835 Posts in 66615 Topics by 16992 Members
Latest Member: Rmf22
* Home Help Arcade Search Calendar Guidelines Login Register
+  blonde poker forum
|-+  Poker Forums
| |-+  The Rail
| | |-+  String bets - - - again
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic. « previous next »
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Down Print
Author Topic: String bets - - - again  (Read 7248 times)
david3103
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6089



View Profile
« on: July 25, 2012, 12:08:13 PM »

Grand Prix last night, early doors.
We've reached the river of a pot where I raised pre, check called the flop, checked the turn which got checked back and we're at the river.
I picked up 2x1000 and 2x100 chips and moved my hand forward to make a bet of 2200. As I did so a single 100 chip fell from my hands whilst the other three stuck to my fingers. My intention was obvious (yes I know it's better to announce and most of the time I do) but my opponent instantly asked the dealer to rule this as a string bet.
I called for a ruling but since the dealer, youngish, inexperienced, nowhere near the level of a Craig/Scotty/Adrian said that she thought it was a string bet the ruling was that a bet of 100 stood.

Villain was totally open about his motives 'I'll shoot every angle I can' and in truth he called 100 where he would most definitely have folded 2200 so I made an extra 100 chips.
I understand the need to avoid players gaining some sort of advantage by somehow managing to increase a raise because their opponent looks like they are calling, but neither of the two cases mentioned fall into that category. Isn't the overriding rule of poker the requirement to act in a way that is equitable? My bet would have stood under the GUKPT rules and I could have shown just the pair of Jacks after my opponent folded, rather than the set I had to table at showdown and leave the nob in seat one and his even nobbier mate in seat two wondering if folding a pair of queens was right.

Much much later in the night, about two hands from the end a young Danish player on my table stacked all of his chips into one pile and pushed them forward over the line in response to a 3bet. But as he pushed, two 25,000 chips became stuck on the cloth and were left just behind the betting line. His opponent put up the standard cry and again, despite the intentions being totally clear, the ruling went with the 'angle-shooter' and against the player. The dealer in this instance was looking elsewhere when the player was making his bet.
 

From GUKPT rules as published online at
http://www.grosvenorukpokertour.com/About/GUKPT-Rules/

9.    String betting is not permitted. A string bet is defined as going back for more chips or using your bet to unfairly gain an advantage.

Roberts Rules says

14. String raises are not allowed. To protect your right to raise, you should either declare your intention verbally or place the proper amount of chips into the pot. Putting a full bet plus a half-bet or more into the pot is considered to be the same as announcing a raise, and the raise must be completed. (This does not apply in the use of a single chip of greater value.)

DTD Rules simply say that 'Dealers will be responsible for calling string raises' without defining them.




as a small aside, it was extremely satisfying to hit that Royal Flush to eliminate seat one, and the set of threes that eliminated seat two later on
Logged

It's more about the winning than the winnings

5 November 2012 - Kinboshi says "Best post ever on blonde thumbs up"
TL900
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2418



View Profile
« Reply #1 on: July 25, 2012, 12:11:11 PM »

yeah ive had this exact thing done to me before where 1 chip fell from the bottom of my hand, its pretty tilting because your intentions are pretty clear as you say.
Logged

@MtSpewmore
Quote from: jgcblack
I wouldn't normally try so hard, but didn't have another opportunity I could wait for. I wasn't ready to surrender what I WANTED SO MUCH, that easily, I couldn't guarantee a call with me staying stoic and relying on a flinch "top pair" calling reflex.
Cf
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8081



View Profile
« Reply #2 on: July 25, 2012, 12:12:12 PM »

Not even going to bother reading your post.

99.9% chance that it wasn't a string bet.
Logged

Blue text
Jon MW
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6203



View Profile
« Reply #3 on: July 25, 2012, 12:13:13 PM »

Obviously there isn't a problem if your bet is announced.

But if a dealer rules it as a string bet when they've quite clearly seen a chip accidentally fall over the line then they're an idiot and should go for immediate re-training. The problem is probably that a fair number of their bosses wouldn't see anything wrong.

I've seen lots of people doing chip tricks and often a chip will go over the betting line - following the same logic then these would have to be called as betting out of turn wouldn't they?
Logged

Jon "the British cowboy" Woodfield

2011 blonde MTT League August Champion
2011 UK Team Championships: Black Belt Poker Team Captain  - - runners up - -
5 Star HORSE Classic - 2007 Razz Champion
2007 WSOP Razz - 13/341
Cf
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8081



View Profile
« Reply #4 on: July 25, 2012, 12:14:12 PM »

Ok. Have just read your post. Both of those bets are obviously fine. Surprised DTD have ruled that way in both cases. Though if it's the dealers rather than TDs then more understandable.

Most people don't know what a string bet actually is.
Logged

Blue text
Phil_TC
Newbie
*
Offline Offline

Posts: 26


APAT Regular


View Profile
« Reply #5 on: July 25, 2012, 12:14:22 PM »

As I did so a single 100 chip fell from my hands whilst the other three stuck to my fingers.

Will get you some more ky jelly for Christmas Dave x
Logged

Winner of APAT Gold silver and bronze medals
Skippy
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1240


View Profile WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 25, 2012, 12:16:44 PM »

More importantly- Gah! I was hoping the raise in buyin to £100 was going to have put off the unpleasant characters (I wanted to put one of a series of 4 letter words here, but decided to stick to family viewing) that I encountered during the last GP. Last time it was non-stop unpleasant behaviour on the tables I played on. Still the world's biggest pub poker tourney, then.
Logged
david3103
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6089



View Profile
« Reply #7 on: July 25, 2012, 12:21:24 PM »

Ok. Have just read your post. Both of those bets are obviously fine. Surprised DTD have ruled that way in both cases. Though if it's the dealers rather than TDs then more understandable.

Most people don't know what a string bet actually is.

Thanks for reading it :-)
Logged

It's more about the winning than the winnings

5 November 2012 - Kinboshi says "Best post ever on blonde thumbs up"
redsimon
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8631



View Profile
« Reply #8 on: July 25, 2012, 12:44:40 PM »

Verbalise your bets, simples Smiley
Logged

Success has many parents but failure is an orphan

http://www.organdonation.nhs.uk
gouty
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 783



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: July 25, 2012, 01:35:02 PM »

Both string bets.

You and the Danish kid made mistakes. Simple as that. The rule is there to protect all players. I would want the 100 chip bet to stand for sure. I can honestly say I don't think I have ever accidentally string bet in 15 years. Surely you are not advocating that we allow dealers to decide what he thought you meant to do? That sounds really lame.

I played in Ireland at a festival and a few of them take pride in string betting or under raising accidentally  on purpose and always with the nuts. So the rule exists to shaft them hopefully. A good tip is to slide your bet over line.

Also I have seen in cash games where a scumbag will shove his stack in yet a couple of £100 chips hang back so how do you know the dane wasn't at it in this spot?
Logged
gouty
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 783



View Profile
« Reply #10 on: July 25, 2012, 01:41:52 PM »

Why would that not be a 100 chip bet in a GUKPT? 
Logged
Cf
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8081



View Profile
« Reply #11 on: July 25, 2012, 01:45:22 PM »

Both string bets.

They really aren't.
Logged

Blue text
david3103
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 6089



View Profile
« Reply #12 on: July 25, 2012, 01:47:14 PM »

Verbalise your bets, simples Smiley

It's a habit I keep trying to get into.
Both string bets.

You and the Danish kid made mistakes. Simple as that. The rule is there to protect all players. I would want the 100 chip bet to stand for sure. I can honestly say I don't think I have ever accidentally string bet in 15 years. Surely you are not advocating that we allow dealers to decide what he thought you meant to do? That sounds really lame.

I played in Ireland at a festival and a few of them take pride in string betting or under raising accidentally  on purpose and always with the nuts. So the rule exists to shaft them hopefully. A good tip is to slide your bet over line.

Also I have seen in cash games where a scumbag will shove his stack in yet a couple of £100 chips hang back so how do you know the dane wasn't at it in this spot?

You obviously play in games where angle-shooters are common. Damned sure about my intentions, and pretty damned sure about the Dane too.

Why would that not be a 100 chip bet in a GUKPT? 


Because the rule is as stated in the OP
Logged

It's more about the winning than the winnings

5 November 2012 - Kinboshi says "Best post ever on blonde thumbs up"
Cf
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 8081



View Profile
« Reply #13 on: July 25, 2012, 01:51:19 PM »

You know, I usually disagree with GUKPT rules but that's a nice little definition of string betting.

gouty, you say the rule as you interpret it protects players. How have the people doing the betting in these hands had their interests protected by your interpretation?
Logged

Blue text
gouty
Sr. Member
****
Offline Offline

Posts: 783



View Profile
« Reply #14 on: July 25, 2012, 02:37:02 PM »

It's the players who have not made mistakes that need protecting in these instances.

Why on earth are we protecting players that have made a fundamental error or possible shady play?  There is no way to tell the difference.

I have played in Gukpts and never seen em allow ambiguous betting before. Surely the Danish lad has bet everything except the 50,0000 he kept behind the line? That's as plain as daylight no?

If you start letting dealers decide what a players intentions are then you open the door for all sorts of shady play.

Of course OPs intentions are sound but why should he not be penalised for his error?
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4 Go Up Print 
« previous next »
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
Page created in 0.075 seconds with 20 queries.