Live £1/£2. Flopped nuts OOP on a wet board.

[edgascoigne]

Game is £1/£2 at the newly-opened Hippodrome. This table has been playing for about an hour and a half after amalgamating two half tables (ie. I have played a few hours previous with some at the table).

Stacks...

Me (BB) £700
Father (Straddle) £600
Villain (C/O) £650

The game has been pretty passive pre, generally only Ian or I raising IP over limpers. Villain in question has seemed pretty nitty, though on occasions a little stubborn post - recent history I raised over his limp, bet, bet on JJ39 board at which point he folded. Confident in my reads/assessment of my dad's game. I am probably perceived as (slightly overly) aggressive.

SB posts £1
BB posts £2
Straddle posts £5
UTG+1 limps £5
CO limps £5
SB folds
I call £3 with  (my dad has only bumped once from his straddle so seems fine).
Straddle checks

FLOP (£21) :     

What a life, I know.

I check.
Straddle bets £17
UTG+1 folds
CO calls £17
We.....??

Interested to hear thoughts on all options, excluding "Fold" naturally.

[TL900]

feels like a slam dunk raise, £65 i prob make it sets up dec pot/stack ratio on turns and rivers when we get favourable run outs

[AlexMartin]

id prolly go bigger, river psr is not such a huge factor (its live, people call flops wider than turns, we have almost no pure bluffs). 90.

[pleno1]

do you have a £100 chip? If not 4 £25's wll do. stare at everybody lookign at stacks etc, "well gotta find out where I am, Hundo."

[cambridgealex]

Kick Father G under the table ldo. Taking £ off your old man just aint right! (Leave that to me and Mitch )

[edgascoigne]

Kick Father G under the table ldo. Taking £ off your old man just aint right! (Leave that to me and Mitch )

Money won off the father is just as sweet as money won elsewhere. I doubled through him half an hour previously AI with QJ on QJ9 when he had somehow found the K10. Jackball on the turn thank you very much...

[edgascoigne]

With regards to the hand...

I guess my question centres around the concept of..."What is the optimal amount to inflate the pot (OOP with the vulnerable nuts with no redraw) on quite such a wet board". It feels like...

Obviously the optimal solution is to have all the discs in the middle (we have the blocker to the straight with the flush redraw). However, if we jam we lose value from our hand as villains pass essentially everything (can't really have a set as limped pre, don't think either calls off with two pair, both pass big draws due to impossibly poor price).

Just calling, whilst it keeps the pot small, seems a massive no-no, again for obvious reasons.

So....we're putting in a raise. If we look at two options....£70 and £100.

(A) If we make it £70 and are called by one of the villains there is now £178 in the middle. (Dependent on who we are called by Eff Stack is £525-575 on turn)
(B) If we make it £100 and are called by one of the villains there is now £238 in the middle. (Eff Stack is £475-525 on turn)

Are we not now in a horrible spot on a large number of turns? Basically thinking spades, tens, pair-ups and maybe even aces? Ie. something like 23 'scare cards'?

If we are assuming villain is relatively straightforward....what is our play on (a) brick turns and (b) 'scare cards'?



I'm rambling massively here....basically what I'm getting at is raising the flop seems the only option, but by doing so would seem to be putting myself in something of a coffin? Not too concerned against CO as think he will play v. straightforward but there's the possibility Father Gascoigne will take this opportunity to get OOL...

[rfgqqabc]

Tank make it 36 if anyone will spaz :-)

83 is a nice size

[muckthenuts]

Deffo fold pre, and leading flop >>> checking imo.

This game sounds like a good one btw

[paulhouk03]

Deffo fold pre, and leading flop >>> checking imo.

This game sounds like a good one btw

really?

[dakky]

Deffo fold pre, and leading flop >>> checking imo.

This game sounds like a good one btw

fold pre super deep for £3 with a non-gapper? No way.

I agree with leading.

Also that the game sounsd good.

[Mitch]

Raise and keep betting as big as possible, if a bad card comes you can easily bet fold vs passive opponent.

I like £70 on the flop....... £77 vs Ian so he pays the rake when I scoooooooooop!

[Mitch]

Also, calling pre all day.

[edgascoigne]

Deffo fold pre, and leading flop >>> checking imo.

This game sounds like a good one btw

fold pre super deep for £3 with a non-gapper? No way.

I agree with leading.

Also that the game sounsd good.

Game was good, had been v good. Still got myself in a hole to start obv.

Didn't want to lead as hadn't done so oop all session so figured would look a bit iffy. Is this a spot live where such considerations are fundamentally irrelevant?

[cambridgealex]

Also, calling pre all day.

wow really?