600nl cold 5b post flop spot

[pleno1]

Ok so table mark opens to 12 good reg 3bets to 35 from btn. Good reg makes it 88 from sb and we cold 5 to 156 from the big.

All fold and sb tank calls.

Flop j97r villain checks we check

Turn is 2 villain checks we check

River is a 4 villain bets 174 which works out to be half lot after 4 seconds hero calls with aj.

How do we view his range? If we jM river what's his calling range? Does he fold his Entire rangrassuming he bets kk+ ott?

Thought on heros post flop play?

[Honeybadger]

Don't really know how to comment on this hand because I am pretty sure I've never cold 5bet AJ in my life. Maybe I'm missing out - should I try it, what's it like? ;-)

[pleno1]

I think in this spot it's pretty standard pre flop.

I'm interested in what calling range we give him and then draw up ideas what river bluffing and value ranges he has and then what. B/c ranges he has.

[Honeybadger]

I think in this spot it's pretty standard pre flop.

You crazy kids play a different brand of poker to me if this is 'standard'!!

And thus,

I'm interested in what calling range we give him and then draw up ideas what river bluffing and value ranges he has and then what. B/c ranges he has.

I am completely unqualified to answer this question since I have never had the image that would result from cold 5betting AJ being a standard part of my game.

[pleno1]

I actually think not 5betting in this spot when face up we are 100bbs deep but vs the fishes min and the should e standard ISP 3b and v regular 4b from good reg is actually probably a leak. I'm not saying with 100pc frequency but at least semi regularly.

In going to try induce you into a post stu :p

I we consider he never has qq+ ott what is more important checking twice and repping ak to induce river bet or Bering turn to protect vs a lot of potential hands that could improve or call turn with hands that we beat.

[muckthenuts]

Seems like a decent spot and a good hand to put in the 5slide with 

[Honeybadger]

I actually think not 5betting in this spot when face up we are 100bbs deep but vs the fishes min and the should e standard ISP 3b and v regular 4b from good reg is actually probably a leak. I'm not saying with 100pc frequency but at least semi regularly.

In going to try induce you into a post stu :p

Lol, I could easily be induced to write a huge tl;dr post 'on sanity'. I'm playing poker right now though so I'm going to resist. Plus I'm far too old school it appears.

Seriously though, surely all your combos of AK are enough to have a decent frequency of cold 5bet 'bluffs' here. And if that's not enough combos then you have AQ right? If you're doing this with AJ as well then your frequencies are going to be WAY out of line! In a live game you can have a read on a particular spot and just 'feel' that players are light here, and thus can get out of line to exploit this. But online, surely you are just guessing - which is why you need to have sensible frequencies.

Also, there must be a certain tangible value to simply remaining sane.

[Honeybadger]

I mean, given that even aggressive regs are allowed to have real hands once in a while, how many combos are you doing this with for value? QQ+, and then AK as a sort of merge? If this is the case then all your AQ combos are plenty with which to balance out your value hands. If you have any more than this then you are just a spewy maniac, surely.

[DMorgan]

Think you might have just flipped your lid on this one met.

fwiw I think its pretty reasonable for him to check QQ+ twice. 99 also. I'd expect this river bet to be a bluff pretty much never. I just don't really see the guy playing anything but straight up vs a cold5.

I guess I'm gunna look pretty dim when he rolls over the 85hh

[pleno1]

Yeh he had a bluff. It's 2012 mid stakes people are a lot more hooooooood than 2010 22/18s

[Oxford_HRV]

Beautiful!

[SuuPRlim]

what hands do you bet OTF here, seems you're going to have to check 100% for the post flop line you've taken to be properly balanced?

How do you actually proceed with AK, seems hard to win the pot now.

[DMorgan]

Yeh he had a bluff. It's 2012 mid stakes people are a lot more hooooooood than 2010 22/18s

Kinda feels like its hard for pre to be good when even though you get a pretty nutsy flop for your hand, you still don't feel like you can legit value bet? If he's peeling an expanded range pre then I'd expect that there is more than one street of value to be had since his range includes a ton of hands that you dominate?

[SuuPRlim]

I actually think not 5betting in this spot when face up we are 100bbs deep but vs the fishes min and the should e standard ISP 3b and v regular 4b from good reg is actually probably a leak.

I still can't quite see how anything here with AJo can ever be better than folding.

[cambridgealex]

This wasn't even that long ago!