Final table of €55 online comp. can I find a fold. ICM question

[LB44]

Final table of a €55 comp, only 50 runners, so top 6 paid.

I'm 2nd in chips, with 11,500.
6th would pay out €126, 1st €875.

Blinds 200/400/100.

JJ utg, I make it 800. Folded round to sb, who shoves for 8,000. We have no info on sb. This is the 1st time I've opened a pot in 1 orbit of FT.

Snap? Sigh call or fold?

[strak33]

9 handed , 10 handed? Other stacks?

[LB44]

10 handed.

Chip leader on 24,000.

Everybody else between 8,000 and 6,500.

[George2Loose]

I mean if you're going to raise/fold you should just fold pre

[LB44]

I'm never folding JJ pre with my stack. Just wondered if this is bad?

I snapped and Sb had KK. We were quite deep for a final table so didn't expect to be crushed by a shove of 20bbs.

[George2Loose]

Level? What else is he going to do with 20 bigs?

[cambridgealex]

6x/fold imo. Then you KNOW you're behind.

[LB44]

Don't think I shove with KK. Prob bump it up to 2300, let utg jam. Thin range calls a shove. Wider range 4 bet jams. Or am I being a tard. I'm still playing like its 2010 online.

[George2Loose]

If a 20bb stack 3 bets it looks super stong to me

[LB44]

Agreed, however the guy had a fish swimming round next to his name on scope

[discomonkey]

i would be more inclined to fold if he 3bet to 2300, fist pumping here....

[Deadman]

If you start foldin Jacks here then your going to find yourself blinding out a lot and maybe min cashing now and then... would probably break my finger trying to click the call button so fast. The fact that he has Kings is just unlucky. Also if your 3 betting small out of 20bigs then you'll lose a lot of value as anyone decent will be folding 77-1010 and Aj AQ etc which they'd call if u just piled. Having said that if your playing against a bunch of fish then its fine because they'll probably still shove or even peel which we don't mind with King and King.

[LB44]

I am talking about 3 betting small against these donkey euro players on IPN. Not in a bigger comp or a live arena. People 3 bet fold with 10 bigs on that site its rediculous

[Sulphur man]

Think we can r/f down to 19 bigs. Obviously don't like doing it although here we have a perceived skill edge.
Fishbowl on sharkscope pretty much seals the deal though.

JJ is a huge hand for a 20BB stack, and you should be willing to get it Allin pre-flop i fully agree.
Tournament poker is as you know a different beast to cash games, here one mistake can cost us
our tournament life. For this reason, tournament poker is highly situational, and highly read-based.

With JJ utg/10 players there is a 12% chance that another player has a higher pair than you, its one
of those difficult hands that falls into a grey area playability wise.

Regarding ICM i don't think this is an issue yet as we are playing to win the comp, Maybe on the actual
bubble or again when you get four handed ICM would be a bigger consideration.

[Sulphur man]

I love the work of Tommy Angelo so a quick quote here from the man regarding Gray Area before
george and Alex flame my post. 


In the land of the closest poker decisions - we can easily expect disagreement over which decisions are best. We can expect intelligent, elaborate debates with both sides insisting theirs is the right side. We can also expect to debate with ourselves and to second guess ourselves. "Did I get it right this time?"

And that's why I say: The decisions that trouble us most are the ones that matter least.

Let's say you face a close betting decision, and afterwards, you want a definite answer. You want to know, one way or the other, if your play was right or wrong.

STOP!

That's a mistake. Just by thinking like that, about right and wrong, you are making a mistake. If you play a hand, and you face a close decision, and then you write about it or talk it, I think that's great - seriously. Or if you talk about hands other people played, same thing. All good.

But be careful. Don't fall into the gray area trap.

Don't burn up valuable energy and waste precious sanity. Don't assume that just because you have an answer, and just because someone else has a different answer, that one of you is right and the other is wrong.