Mayfair Casino witholding Ivey's winnings

[arbboy]

More interestingly, if you were in charge of Crockfords, would you still take his action?

Course they will take his action as long as they don't have to pander to his incredible list of demands they agreed to in the past.  Doubt he will be in a rush to give them any action though.  He has been massively free rolled by Crockford's though in my opinion.  If he had knocked out £4/5m doing this he wouldn't have been able to take it to court and say the only reason he invested those sums was because he had an edge over them rather than the other way around.  Crockford's might have even known what he was doing and let him get on with it knowing that if he won they would refuse to pay him and if he did his bollocks then they win.  You never know.  You would have to assume Crockford's security guys are close to the best in the business given the sums of money involved in their establishment on a daily basis and might have even known about these cards being marked like this. VWP to Crockford's if this was the case and having Ivey over on a freeroll.

Arb...really respect your opinion but can you expand on the above please  ?

Are you saying Crockfords  either won his money in the game or withheld his money if he won... hence a free roll  ?

I am not saying they did.  I am saying if they knew he was edge sorting and knew that they would win a legal case in the UK on anyone trying it on in their casinos that they potentially could have freerolled him in this way.  This assumes they have top class management/security which you would imagine in one of the premier westend punting dens and they knew who Ivey was and wasn't asking for all these things for the hell of it.  I would find it hard to believe when Phil Ivey rocks up at a top casino in London most of their staff don't know who he is.

[FUN4FRASER]

More interestingly, if you were in charge of Crockfords, would you still take his action?

Course they will take his action as long as they don't have to pander to his incredible list of demands they agreed to in the past.  Doubt he will be in a rush to give them any action though.  He has been massively free rolled by Crockford's though in my opinion.  If he had knocked out £4/5m doing this he wouldn't have been able to take it to court and say the only reason he invested those sums was because he had an edge over them rather than the other way around.  Crockford's might have even known what he was doing and let him get on with it knowing that if he won they would refuse to pay him and if he did his bollocks then they win.  You never know.  You would have to assume Crockford's security guys are close to the best in the business given the sums of money involved in their establishment on a daily basis and might have even known about these cards being marked like this. VWP to Crockford's if this was the case and having Ivey over on a freeroll.

Arb...really respect your opinion but can you expand on the above please  ?

Are you saying Crockfords  either won his money in the game or withheld his money if he won... hence a free roll  ?

I am not saying they did.  I am saying if they knew he was edge sorting and knew that they would win a legal case in the UK on anyone trying it on in their casinos that they potentially could have freerolled him in this way.  This assumes they have top class management/security which you would imagine in one of the premier westend punting dens and they knew who Ivey was and wasn't asking for all these things for the hell of it.  I would find it hard to believe when Phil Ivey rocks up at a top casino in London most of their staff don't know who he is.

ok cheers...but the bad publicity obv a negative for Crockfords

[arbboy]

More interestingly, if you were in charge of Crockfords, would you still take his action?

Course they will take his action as long as they don't have to pander to his incredible list of demands they agreed to in the past.  Doubt he will be in a rush to give them any action though.  He has been massively free rolled by Crockford's though in my opinion.  If he had knocked out £4/5m doing this he wouldn't have been able to take it to court and say the only reason he invested those sums was because he had an edge over them rather than the other way around.  Crockford's might have even known what he was doing and let him get on with it knowing that if he won they would refuse to pay him and if he did his bollocks then they win.  You never know.  You would have to assume Crockford's security guys are close to the best in the business given the sums of money involved in their establishment on a daily basis and might have even known about these cards being marked like this. VWP to Crockford's if this was the case and having Ivey over on a freeroll.

Arb...really respect your opinion but can you expand on the above please  ?

Are you saying Crockfords  either won his money in the game or withheld his money if he won... hence a free roll  ?

I am not saying they did.  I am saying if they knew he was edge sorting and knew that they would win a legal case in the UK on anyone trying it on in their casinos that they potentially could have freerolled him in this way.  This assumes they have top class management/security which you would imagine in one of the premier westend punting dens and they knew who Ivey was and wasn't asking for all these things for the hell of it.  I would find it hard to believe when Phil Ivey rocks up at a top casino in London most of their staff don't know who he is.

ok cheers...but the bad publicity obv a negative for Crockfords

It's great publicity for Crockford's imo.  They have shown that cheats won't be accepted in their casino and they will be challenged in a court of law if they try.

[FUN4FRASER]

More interestingly, if you were in charge of Crockfords, would you still take his action?

Course they will take his action as long as they don't have to pander to his incredible list of demands they agreed to in the past.  Doubt he will be in a rush to give them any action though.  He has been massively free rolled by Crockford's though in my opinion.  If he had knocked out £4/5m doing this he wouldn't have been able to take it to court and say the only reason he invested those sums was because he had an edge over them rather than the other way around.  Crockford's might have even known what he was doing and let him get on with it knowing that if he won they would refuse to pay him and if he did his bollocks then they win.  You never know.  You would have to assume Crockford's security guys are close to the best in the business given the sums of money involved in their establishment on a daily basis and might have even known about these cards being marked like this. VWP to Crockford's if this was the case and having Ivey over on a freeroll.

Arb...really respect your opinion but can you expand on the above please  ?

Are you saying Crockfords  either won his money in the game or withheld his money if he won... hence a free roll  ?

I am not saying they did.  I am saying if they knew he was edge sorting and knew that they would win a legal case in the UK on anyone trying it on in their casinos that they potentially could have freerolled him in this way.  This assumes they have top class management/security which you would imagine in one of the premier westend punting dens and they knew who Ivey was and wasn't asking for all these things for the hell of it.  I would find it hard to believe when Phil Ivey rocks up at a top casino in London most of their staff don't know who he is.

ok cheers...but the bad publicity obv a negative for Crockfords

It's great publicity for Crockford's imo.  They have shown that cheats won't be accepted in their casino and they will be challenged in a court of law if they try.

Time will tell I guess...I think the opposite to you at this stage but then Im on Iveys side and have a bias against the big boys

[verndog158]

More interestingly, if you were in charge of Crockfords, would you still take his action?

Course they will take his action as long as they don't have to pander to his incredible list of demands they agreed to in the past.  Doubt he will be in a rush to give them any action though.  He has been massively free rolled by Crockford's though in my opinion.  If he had knocked out £4/5m doing this he wouldn't have been able to take it to court and say the only reason he invested those sums was because he had an edge over them rather than the other way around.  Crockford's might have even known what he was doing and let him get on with it knowing that if he won they would refuse to pay him and if he did his bollocks then they win.  You never know.  You would have to assume Crockford's security guys are close to the best in the business given the sums of money involved in their establishment on a daily basis and might have even known about these cards being marked like this. VWP to Crockford's if this was the case and having Ivey over on a freeroll.

Arb...really respect your opinion but can you expand on the above please  ?

Are you saying Crockfords  either won his money in the game or withheld his money if he won... hence a free roll  ?

I am not saying they did.  I am saying if they knew he was edge sorting and knew that they would win a legal case in the UK on anyone trying it on in their casinos that they potentially could have freerolled him in this way.  This assumes they have top class management/security which you would imagine in one of the premier westend punting dens and they knew who Ivey was and wasn't asking for all these things for the hell of it.  I would find it hard to believe when Phil Ivey rocks up at a top casino in London most of their staff don't know who he is.

ok cheers...but the bad publicity obv a negative for Crockfords

It's great publicity for Crockford's imo.  They have shown that cheats won't be accepted in their casino and they will be challenged in a court of law if they try.

Time will tell I guess...I think the opposite to you at this stage but then Im on Iveys side and have a bias against the big boys

guess what hes saying is that they knew what he was doing, and wouldnt have said anything if hed lost, but obviously snapped him off when he scooped. if thats the case, thats pretty ool

[arbboy]

More interestingly, if you were in charge of Crockfords, would you still take his action?

Course they will take his action as long as they don't have to pander to his incredible list of demands they agreed to in the past.  Doubt he will be in a rush to give them any action though.  He has been massively free rolled by Crockford's though in my opinion.  If he had knocked out £4/5m doing this he wouldn't have been able to take it to court and say the only reason he invested those sums was because he had an edge over them rather than the other way around.  Crockford's might have even known what he was doing and let him get on with it knowing that if he won they would refuse to pay him and if he did his bollocks then they win.  You never know.  You would have to assume Crockford's security guys are close to the best in the business given the sums of money involved in their establishment on a daily basis and might have even known about these cards being marked like this. VWP to Crockford's if this was the case and having Ivey over on a freeroll.

Arb...really respect your opinion but can you expand on the above please  ?

Are you saying Crockfords  either won his money in the game or withheld his money if he won... hence a free roll  ?

I am not saying they did.  I am saying if they knew he was edge sorting and knew that they would win a legal case in the UK on anyone trying it on in their casinos that they potentially could have freerolled him in this way.  This assumes they have top class management/security which you would imagine in one of the premier westend punting dens and they knew who Ivey was and wasn't asking for all these things for the hell of it.  I would find it hard to believe when Phil Ivey rocks up at a top casino in London most of their staff don't know who he is.

ok cheers...but the bad publicity obv a negative for Crockfords

It's great publicity for Crockford's imo.  They have shown that cheats won't be accepted in their casino and they will be challenged in a court of law if they try.

Time will tell I guess...I think the opposite to you at this stage but then Im on Iveys side and have a bias against the big boys

I just think it would be really funny if Ivey did get freerolled after shooting Genting an angle like this to try and have them over.  We will never ever know.  It's pretty unlikely he has in the way i suggest and it's probably just down to bad management that the incident ever happened in the first place the way it did.  However, surely these big casino group's security department's talk about things like edge sorting and the legal side of it in every country they trade.  It would be a proper coup for them if they had agreed with their legal team that anyone who attempted it in their casinos would always lose their case in a court of law in the UK and they were willing to let it happen if the punter doing it was staking big enough to give them a big enough freeroll against him.

[arbboy]

More interestingly, if you were in charge of Crockfords, would you still take his action?

Course they will take his action as long as they don't have to pander to his incredible list of demands they agreed to in the past.  Doubt he will be in a rush to give them any action though.  He has been massively free rolled by Crockford's though in my opinion.  If he had knocked out £4/5m doing this he wouldn't have been able to take it to court and say the only reason he invested those sums was because he had an edge over them rather than the other way around.  Crockford's might have even known what he was doing and let him get on with it knowing that if he won they would refuse to pay him and if he did his bollocks then they win.  You never know.  You would have to assume Crockford's security guys are close to the best in the business given the sums of money involved in their establishment on a daily basis and might have even known about these cards being marked like this. VWP to Crockford's if this was the case and having Ivey over on a freeroll.

Arb...really respect your opinion but can you expand on the above please  ?

Are you saying Crockfords  either won his money in the game or withheld his money if he won... hence a free roll  ?

I am not saying they did.  I am saying if they knew he was edge sorting and knew that they would win a legal case in the UK on anyone trying it on in their casinos that they potentially could have freerolled him in this way.  This assumes they have top class management/security which you would imagine in one of the premier westend punting dens and they knew who Ivey was and wasn't asking for all these things for the hell of it.  I would find it hard to believe when Phil Ivey rocks up at a top casino in London most of their staff don't know who he is.

ok cheers...but the bad publicity obv a negative for Crockfords

It's great publicity for Crockford's imo.  They have shown that cheats won't be accepted in their casino and they will be challenged in a court of law if they try.

Time will tell I guess...I think the opposite to you at this stage but then Im on Iveys side and have a bias against the big boys

guess what hes saying is that they knew what he was doing, and wouldnt have said anything if hed lost, but obviously snapped him off when he scooped. if thats the case, thats pretty ool

It's definitely ool but their reputation would always be protected as no-one could ever prove this had happened so they could never lose their repuation.

[Tal]

Biggest level since the Cottingley Fairies. No way you believe what you're writing, arbboy. If you tried submitting it for the plot of Ocean's Fourteen, they'd laugh you out of Hollywood.

[arbboy]

Biggest level since the Cottingley Fairies. No way you believe what you're writing, arbboy. If you tried submitting it for the plot of Ocean's Fourteen, they'd laugh you out of Hollywood.

Agreed i am not saying this is the reality but a really savvy legal team for a top class casino could easily pull off this risk free coup if the upside was suitably large enough.  Plus imagine the dent to Ivey's ego if he ever found out that he got levelled in this way by a casino when he thought he was pulling off a monster coup.

[Tal]

Biggest level since the Cottingley Fairies. No way you believe what you're writing, arbboy. If you tried submitting it for the plot of Ocean's Fourteen, they'd laugh you out of Hollywood.

Agreed i am not saying this is the reality but a really savvy legal team for a top class casino could easily pull off this risk free coup.

Ok. I'm in for 10% if I get the Don Cheadle comedy London accent part.

[arbboy]

Biggest level since the Cottingley Fairies. No way you believe what you're writing, arbboy. If you tried submitting it for the plot of Ocean's Fourteen, they'd laugh you out of Hollywood.

Agreed i am not saying this is the reality but a really savvy legal team for a top class casino could easily pull off this risk free coup.

Ok. I'm in for 10% if I get the Don Cheadle comedy London accent part.

You would be 1.01 for the posh oxbridge type sitting playing roulette on the next table!

[h]

Biggest level since the Cottingley Fairies. No way you believe what you're writing, arbboy. If you tried submitting it for the plot of Ocean's Fourteen, they'd laugh you out of Hollywood.

Agreed i am not saying this is the reality but a really savvy legal team for a top class casino could easily pull off this risk free coup if the upside was suitably large enough.  Plus imagine the dent to Ivey's ego if he ever found out that he got levelled in this way by a casino when he thought he was pulling off a monster coup.

Original story published stated he got his stake money of £1million  returned.

[smurf]

thought he had lost the case today

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/08/top-poker-player-phil-ivey-loses-court-battle-7-million-winnings

[gouty]

Biggest level since the Cottingley Fairies. No way you believe what you're writing, arbboy. If you tried submitting it for the plot of Ocean's Fourteen, they'd laugh you out of Hollywood.

Agreed i am not saying this is the reality but a really savvy legal team for a top class casino could easily pull off this risk free coup if the upside was suitably large enough.  Plus imagine the dent to Ivey's ego if he ever found out that he got levelled in this way by a casino when he thought he was pulling off a monster coup.

Well that would pretty high levelling. This is all in hindsight remember?

The most important factor of the whole thing is, as you are saying, is the precedent this ruling may have?

The U.K. Will have the most regulated gambling market in the world in 2 months with many country's looking at how it has happened and trying to replicate it. I think this ruling against Ivey is wrong. GC license states you must operate in fair and open manner and the operator has. The punter has not, I agree, but should be paid.

This ruling says "Come to the UK and punt but please don't win"!

Our chance of being the Las Vegas of the internet has now fkd off for good.

[JoeBeevers]

This ruling says "Come to the UK and punt but please don't win"!

..

I think it says  "Come to the UK and punt but please don't cheat"!