What's happened to Poker?

[AndrewT]

One thing I'm surprised an online poker site has never done:

Make some tables for one or two tablers only.

It is incredibly frustrating for the recreational player to be sat on a six max cash table against 5 guys who are 12 tabling taking ages to fold even though it's a "turbo" table.

Bodog had a 4 table limit, and I think there is one room (can't remember which) that has tables where, if you're playing at one of them, you can't play at any others.

Essentially, it as multi-tabling that hurt online poker - meant the shark/fish ratio at each table got all out of kilter.

[Honeybadger]

Before the recession and Black Friday it looked to me like we were very close to having the Asian boom. The poker sites were starting to push into Asia (Asian Poker Tour, loads of Korean red pros etc etc), and of course there is a big gambling culture in many parts of Asia. I was all ready for the second golden egg, and expecting it to happen. Of course, it never did happen, mainly due to the recession and the US thing. But hopefully it is only on hold and will occur in the future.

Plenty of people are still trying, but it's a tough market and poker just isn't that appealing (or so I'm told).

There are already a lot of major online businesses out there that you just don't know about. Chances are if there is a poker boom there it won't be the western sites that benefit from it.

If this is true then... sigh. I have no specialist knowledge of it personally, it was just a supposition that I made a few years ago when I saw the main poker sites very obviously making concerted moves into the Asian market.

[Sulphur man]

With regards to poker commentary always thought it would be a good idea to have a choice between
two sets of commentators with say a red button option between the two.

One for the hardened knowledgeable players with expert analysis and the main hosts with more focus on
beginners with explanations for the plays, table position and poker terms.

[Fenix35]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in the thread but I was listening to the 2p2 pokercast today and they had Norman Chad one of the two WSOP commentators. It was interesting to hear how he has always tried at least (despite his production directors wishes) to keep the WSOP broadcasts less analytic and strategical and focusing more on the players stories, drama, backgrounds etc. His claim like some in this thread is that the casual viewer wants the fun and excitement but doesn't want to hear about optimal 3betting spots and frequencies and that the move by a lot of televised poker into extremely analytic shows is off-putting for the casual viewer especially as a show like the WSOP which is aired on ESPN is really targetting the mass-market rather than the absolute poker enthusiast. Quite an interesting interview if people want to listen to it.

[tight4better]

Daniel talks about his role with the poker media 9:00. Pretty interesting his view on it.

[muckthenuts]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in the thread but I was listening to the 2p2 pokercast today and they had Norman Chad one of the two WSOP commentators. It was interesting to hear how he has always tried at least (despite his production directors wishes) to keep the WSOP broadcasts less analytic and strategical and focusing more on the players stories, drama, backgrounds etc. His claim like some in this thread is that the casual viewer wants the fun and excitement but doesn't want to hear about optimal 3betting spots and frequencies and that the move by a lot of televised poker into extremely analytic shows is off-putting for the casual viewer especially as a show like the WSOP which is aired on ESPN is really targetting the mass-market rather than the absolute poker enthusiast. Quite an interesting interview if people want to listen to it.

The WSOP main event is the only poker show i'll go out of my way to watch these days. I don't want to hear about any of the optimal 3betting stuff you mentioned either. I seriously doubt there are many serious poker players who tune into tv poker for educational value, the whole thing should be pure entertainment.

[BangBang]

*Coughs* I wrote about this months ago but got pooh poohed... *Coughs*


 

[easypickings]

I agree with so much written on the thread, but have to strongly disagree with the notion of the newer type of players taking longer over hands than the old school.

I would bet that the average online nerd spends alot less time on average on a hand, and they definitely waste less time needlessly.

Whilst the Dwan dwell up is very annoying, it has never become as popular as the old school dwell up, which goes something  like; retrieve cards from under card protector, check that they have no intention to do anything but fold, stare the kid down, maybe shoot a disparaging glance at the dealer, maybe a boring comment like "I'll catch you next time kid," and eventually fold.

[SuuPRlim]

I don't want to watch players playing for thousands, especially player you know who aren't rolled for the game.  

I never really got why people though this was relevant. High stakes poker for example, they were playing $400/$800 with a $200 ante and stacks off $200-$500k I'll tell you right now you can count the amount of pro poker players "rolled" for that game in the world on one hand, and the vast majority of players would have had less than 50% of their own action on that series for defo.

When they did the $500k min buyin show Doyle even said in the pre-show bit that Guy was the only one there who could actually afford to play this high.

I still found it way the best TV poker show ever made though, basically cos of this....

Personally I would much rather watch a decent £2/5 of £5/£10 game with a few decent players who are regular to each other, as this helps with table banter and dynamics. 

[smashedagain]

Not sure if it's been mentioned in the thread but I was listening to the 2p2 pokercast today and they had Norman Chad one of the two WSOP commentators. It was interesting to hear how he has always tried at least (despite his production directors wishes) to keep the WSOP broadcasts less analytic and strategical and focusing more on the players stories, drama, backgrounds etc. His claim like some in this thread is that the casual viewer wants the fun and excitement but doesn't want to hear about optimal 3betting spots and frequencies and that the move by a lot of televised poker into extremely analytic shows is off-putting for the casual viewer especially as a show like the WSOP which is aired on ESPN is really targetting the mass-market rather than the absolute poker enthusiast. Quite an interesting interview if people want to listen to it.

Norm noticed me and my wedding ring in its box as a card protector on day 1a of the 2009 wsop and asked about my story. We did a small piece for the camera ( even got to sit in the wsop chair they use for there interviews ) and when I returned on day 2a with the ring on my finger he was waiting with the cameras at my table and first hand I flop a set of jacks V AA and then we did another piece. He said he loved the stories that the wsop through up but sadly my moment of fame ended up on the cutting room floor.

[horseplayer]

One thing I'm surprised an online poker site has never done:

Make some tables for one or two tablers only.

It is incredibly frustrating for the recreational player to be sat on a six max cash table against 5 guys who are 12 tabling taking ages to fold even though it's a "turbo" table.

Bodog had a 4 table limit, and I think there is one room (can't remember which) that has tables where, if you're playing at one of them, you can't play at any others.

Essentially, it as multi-tabling that hurt online poker - meant the shark/fish ratio at each table got all out of kilter.

agree with this

i still play live when i can mainly to relax and enjoy myself . A few years ago i could go online of a friday night splash around and not be up against probably 4 or 5 regular players waiting for my mistakes and 2 out of 5 nights i might even win.

The times i dip into online now to be honest i get bored.

[tonytats]

Who cares - for your average live fish it's all irrelevant.

This.

The game is huge compared to what it was when I started playing.

But the fish have even less chance of winning now though.

Deep stack tournaments against much more talented players means the recreational players basically have no shot at winning.

I'm glad you posted this Keith ,I was gonna buy in to the main at Luton gukpt ,till I read this post , having deceided im a rec fish / weekend hacker ,thanks I'm a grand better off now

[kinboshi]

Who cares - for your average live fish it's all irrelevant.

This.

The game is huge compared to what it was when I started playing.

But the fish have even less chance of winning now though.

Deep stack tournaments against much more talented players means the recreational players basically have no shot at winning.

I'm glad you posted this Keith ,I was gonna buy in to the main at Luton gukpt ,till I read this post , having deceided im a rec fish / weekend hacker ,thanks I'm a grand better off now

Keith Hawkins kills UK poker.

[tonytats]

Lol lol

[Fenix35]

Who cares - for your average live fish it's all irrelevant.

This.

The game is huge compared to what it was when I started playing.

But the fish have even less chance of winning now though.

Deep stack tournaments against much more talented players means the recreational players basically have no shot at winning.

I'm glad you posted this Keith ,I was gonna buy in to the main at Luton gukpt ,till I read this post , having deceided im a rec fish / weekend hacker ,thanks I'm a grand better off now

It's not quite true, no-one ever has -100% ROI as even the very worst of the worst can get lucky occasionally and get a cash. Just look at some of the main event winners in the last few years or players like Darvin Moon who came 2nd a year or so back. The main event has one of the best structures of any tournament and although this does favor a stronger player it certainly doesn't mean that recreational players have no shot at winning. Even this years PCA was a pretty tough final table and a self-confessed recreational player was the one that came out on top for the 7 figure payday.