300bb+ pot and we gots tptk???

[jgcblack]

Pre-Flop ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is CO 


umar365 raises to $0.20, PsychoPatty calls $0.20, Hero raises to $0.70, wakuwaku33 calls $0.70, 1 fold, b4shesh calls $0.60, umar365 folds, PsychoPatty calls $0.50




Flop ($3.05, 4 players)
 

b4shesh checks, PsychoPatty checks, Hero bets $2.30, 1 fold, b4shesh folds, PsychoPatty calls $2.30

 

Turn ($7.65, 2 players)
 

PsychoPatty checks, Hero bets $4.10, PsychoPatty raises to $8.20, Hero calls $4.10



River ($24.05, 2 players)
 
PsychoPatty goes all-in $23.04, $23.04 to Hero ($23.14)?




hand is readless, in the middle of a pretty good zoom session.


My thinking
Preflop - mistake, should be a little bigger...

Flop - have to cbet, folding to a raise and hating life with more than one caller.  Hopefully someone other than PsychoPatty calls or he does and is passive throughout.

Turn - don't like making it bigger as I'm not trying to 'get it in'.  I want to keep his pairs/ guttys/ fd's and Ax in - think $4-5.75 is best.
When he minraises, I'm not beat by a lot... however the second A can make him overplay Ax, pairs, etc..  I don't expect a bluff shove otr very often - but there is a 4th A out there, and we beat most of those.  Feel like we have to call turn although could have potentially taken this decision away by making it bigger ott in the first place.

River - WTF???

[pleno1]

pre is good

flop is good

turn should be bigger, too small

river is a pretty trivial fold i think

[rbc_mike]

Think he has  a boat almost always by the end.  Fold the river and the hand is wp.

[jgcblack]

Any other views at all?

Views on ranges for a - reg, fish/rec, maniac?


Conversation between 'Justinsayne' and I -
[13:27:21] Callum Noble: well I think if hes a fish its still close
[13:27:28] Callum Noble: cause even though he can overplay Ax
[13:27:32] Callum Noble: he also has every single FH combo in his range
[13:27:52] Callum Noble: and depends if he slow plays flop with 2p/set
[13:28:12] Callum Noble: i would lean it more towards him having a bare Ax on the flop
[13:28:24] Callum Noble: since he wants to get money in on a 'flush draw' flop with a strong hand
[13:28:41] Callum Noble: i would even say a reg would do the same
[13:28:47] Callum Noble: so makes me beleive hes more likely to be a fish
[13:29:51] Callum Noble: like if we look at it just like this
[13:29:52] Callum Noble:  equity  win  tie        pots won  pots tied
Hand 0:  38.920%   30.68%  08.24%             270         72.50   { AdKh }
Hand 1:  61.080%   52.84%  08.24%             465         72.50   { 55, 22, A5s, A2s, AJo+, A5o, A2o }
[13:30:10] Callum Noble: with just AJ+ and all full houses we have to call
[13:30:31] Callum Noble: so it really depends if we think a fish takes this line with bare Ax?

[13:31:01] John Black: interesting
[13:31:05] John Black: tbh i hated the whole thing

[13:31:10] Callum Noble: def not a fist pump
[13:31:51] Callum Noble: lets say thats the fishes range
[13:31:51] Callum Noble:  equity  win  tie        pots won  pots tied
Hand 0:  47.475%   38.38%  09.09%             456        108.00   { AdKh }
Hand 1:  52.525%   43.43%  09.09%             516        108.00   { 55, 22, ATs+, A5s, A2s, ATo+, A5o, A2o }
[13:31:59] Callum Noble: AT+ and all FH combos

[13:32:33] John Black: yeah which is obv a ridic range
[13:32:46] John Black: you could include 50% of the Axcc combos

[13:32:46] Callum Noble: if hes a reg we are fucked ldo
[13:33:01] Callum Noble: reg just has a FH always

[13:33:05] John Black: yeah expect 22 + 55 only

[13:33:25] Callum Noble: only thing i can say if that folding is 0ev
[13:33:30] Callum Noble: so its never terrible
[13:33:33] Callum Noble: when things are this close

[13:36:23] John Black: lol

[SuuPRlim]

I think you do better long term giving people more credit and adjusting backwards then assuming they are bad an acting on that. The mistakes you make under-estimating people are often more costly then those made over-estimating them.

That being said his turn c/r could defo lead me to thinking he's weaker in game...

what did you do JCB?

(I think we should prolly fold fwiw)

[Bully87]

Sets only.

Flats raise and flats 3b. Call flop, min r turn & shoves river.

Pre - More
Flop - Fine
Turn - 5.50/6
River - Yuk, readless is pretty horrid but the way it's been played looks so fishy but still think he has a set.

[jgcblack]

we won the hand

[SuuPRlim]

we won the hand

and  what do we think about the river play?

[jgcblack]

we won the hand

and  what do we think about the river play?

I was going through the combo's in my head.. and I hated life.

I then heard Callum and Pat in my head with their often conflicting views -
C - "dude we have tptk and he's a fish... wtf are you thinking about?"
P - "he's a fish and cminr then bet all of his chips, WHAT are still thinking about?!"


I noticed the  wasn't there and thought for a second that would be interesting if he has  type hands here... (obv some make houses) and ended up deciding that it looks like I don't have an A enough that I 'think' my equity will be decent (but not great) vs a realistic range that includes all sensible Ax's.

According to Callum's quick ranges above he thinks its razor close, which could/ possibly should make it a fold. 

In game I absolutely did not fistpump call.... I sighed, sighed a bit more... reminded myself people "dont shovel money in without a hand" then convinced myself its a bad fold when I crush his AJ/AQ type hands and all his Axcc.


Then I called, and I won.



I was pretty shocked and elated at the same time.

[stato_1]

I was pretty shocked and elated at the same time.

It's not really a fistpump either way, but long term its probably not going to be a great idea to make too many calls when you're "shocked and elated" that the pot is getting shipped your way!

Good stuff though, you wouldn't have even thought about this a few months ago just written it off as a cooler!

[jgcblack]

I was pretty shocked and elated at the same time.

It's not really a fistpump either way, but long term its probably not going to be a great idea to make too many calls when you're "shocked and elated" that the pot is getting shipped your way!

Good stuff though, you wouldn't have even thought about this a few months ago just written it off as a cooler!

Both options felt so dirty...

[Pugwashed]

I think the fact that randoms do get carried away with Ax here sometimes and do raise sets or 2 pair on the flop sometimes means you have to call. Spot is dirty tho

[jgcblack]

I think the fact that randoms do get carried away with Ax here sometimes and do raise sets or 2 pair on the flop sometimes means you have to call. Spot is dirty tho

kinda what I was thinking as well..

he 'should' raise his sets some % on the flop, meaning he is slightly more Ax heavy.

[ShatnerPants]

I was pretty shocked and elated at the same time.

It's not really a fistpump either way, but long term its probably not going to be a great idea to make too many calls when you're "shocked and elated" that the pot is getting shipped your way!

Good stuff though, you wouldn't have even thought about this a few months ago just written it off as a cooler!

Both options felt so dirty...

Made me lol (well, a decent chuckle at least)

What did he push with? Isn't this one of those cases where he was either miles in front, or miles behind? In which case, without a read, shouldn't it be a fold? Can you explain (simply but more fully) what made you think his range could be that gave you the edge to call? You don't seem to have given him any credit for 66-KK. Are these hands not in his range? Once you saw his hand, what did you think of his push?

(You don't have to answer all those questions, but one or two would help me get my brain active.... Cheers  )
 

[SuuPRlim]

Isn't this one of those cases where he was either miles in front, or miles behind? 

This is often the case when making river calls, we're either winning the hand (miles ahead) or losing the hand (miles behind)