No open folding - Genting rule!

[aaron1867]

This decision sparked a little discussion at the table early on in Day 1A, so thoughts please.

To cut a long story short, I have 4/5 and I am in the pot. We are at the river and I have not connected what so ever with the board and plenty of players in pot, we was never going to win the pot, worst hand possible & too many players to get through.

I am UTG and river has been dealt as mentioned, wasn't going to attempt to blag, so went to fold. The dealer says "You can't open fold when facing a check"

I have never known this happen anywhere else in poker world & was a Genting rule. I also mention that on a later table, a couple of times I open folded in same position, no problem.

Thoughts?

[I KNOW IT]

This a TDA rule: 46. Non-Standard Folds. Anytime before the end of the last betting round of a hand, folding in turn when facing a check or folding out of turn are both binding folds and may be subject to penalty.

It is not Genting rule, its followed by all tournaments which follow TDA rules, or should be. I presume Genting follow TDA rules in their tournaments

[Tal]

If I understand correctly, there is a distinction between folding when first to act and folding after someone has checked.

I've never liked either but I also don't like people folding just because someone has said "raise" when the amount isn't yet known.

Hope you did well in the event, anyway.

[doubleup]

Its bad etiquette, mainly when there are 3 people in the pot as it changes the dynamics.

[I KNOW IT]

Its bad etiquette, mainly when there are 3 people in the pot as it changes the dynamics.

Exactly this, its deemed the same as folding out of turn and penalties can be given in the same way

[MintTrav]

Why would you want to do it anyway?

A few hands later, the same scenario arises but this time you check instead of folding, so now I know that you have showdown value at least. Thanks for that.

[snoopy1239]

Why is it an option online?

[I KNOW IT]

Why is it an option online?

I don't know, but the rule where you cannot open fold was introduced into the TDA rules at the last TDA summit in 2011. Maybe they havent updated their software or don't play by TDA rules.

[snoopy1239]

I don't really see the point in the rule as players who want to open-fold, but can't, make it obvious that they don't want to continue with the hand anyway.

[I KNOW IT]

I don't really see the point in the rule as players who want to open-fold, but can't, make it obvious that they don't want to continue with the hand anyway.

That could  come under the section Ethical Play  or Etiquette  Violations and may also be subject to a penalty

[Simon Galloway]

Only just seen this...

It is a good rule imo.  You have a responsibility to your fellow players.  If it is 4 handed to the river, player 1 has crap, player 2 has crapper crap, player 3 has poor, but some showdown value, player 4 has nut crap.

If the hand is played out properly, player 4 is less likely to take a stab at it, because he has to fear a call (or CR) in 3 places.

If player 1 and 2 "check-out" by open-folding, now when player 3 checks, player 4 knows he only has to get past one player and so is more likely to bet.

Player 1 and 2 have taken no positive action to influence the hand (i.e. by betting or something which is of course allowed!) but they have through their actions put player 3 in a tough spot more times than they should.

Player 3 is entitled therefore to some protection from player 1 and player 2 by having those players in the hand (and not folding, or making it obvious to player 4 that they will be folding)

I give that protection/courtesy to others, and I don't think it is too much to expect it in return.

[Cf]

Good rule, and should be standard.

[action man]

was involved in a hand like this vs james bord in a wsop side event this year. He was first to act 3 way on the river of a board like 87529  (2 diamonds on the flop and backdoor clubs got there)  after he lead the turn he open folded the river, this changes the dynamic no end and is a terrible impetuous babyish thing to do and after the hand i called the floor on him and he got a 2 round penalty. Just check and stop being a clown.

[Gazza]

Why is it an option online?

It's not on FTP IIRC.

[EvilPie]

I must admit I've been guilty of this myself when I've called from the blinds with a 'speculative' hand and missed completely so have no further interest.

Never really thought about how it might affect others or even cared to be honest but I'll stop doing it from now on.

Can't see a problem with it HU but 3 way+ it changes things hugely.

Good rule and penalties should definitely be imposed.