Ghey Spot - one for the 6max wizards

[rbc_mike]

Guy's new to the table, don't have HEM running atm so no stats. Think I'm seen as overly aggro/ool in spots.

Thoughts on pre/post please.  Felt a bit lost. Folding pre with my image feels so dirty, but don't think it's good enough to 4b/c against an unknown:

PokerStars Hand #90992690078:  Hold'em No Limit (€0.25/€0.50 EUR) - 2012/12/19 14:44:44 WET [2012/12/19 9:44:44 ET]
Table 'Signe IV' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Meniluap (€55.32 in chips)
Seat 2: vivalefish (€65.05 in chips)
Seat 3: starrkkk (€60.09 in chips)
Seat 4: SoSick73 (€58.05 in chips)
Seat 5: tib0rk0vaX (€137.27 in chips)
Seat 6: GaterLeCoin (€50.75 in chips)
tib0rk0vaX: posts small blind €0.25
GaterLeCoin: posts big blind €0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to vivalefish [ ]
Meniluap: folds
vivalefish: raises €1 to €1.50
starrkkk: raises €3.50 to €5
SoSick73: folds
tib0rk0vaX: folds
GaterLeCoin: folds
vivalefish: calls €3.50
*** FLOP *** [ ]
vivalefish: checks
starrkkk: bets €7
vivalefish: calls €7
*** TURN *** [ ] []
vivalefish: checks
starrkkk: bets €15
vivalefish: calls €15
*** RIVER *** [ ] []
vivalefish: checks
starrkkk: bets €33.09 and is all-in

Hero?

[cambridgealex]

seems wp vs a random if you folded river

[edgascoigne]

Looking at his sizings on flop/turn I would be astounded had he not emptied the clip on a brick river. Does this therefore mean that if you are calling turn you should be calling river? I mean if part of the reason for calling turn is picking up the flush draw....I would think if he bombs a spade river you are probs beat....so if there is a point to pass it's perhaps the turn?

Would suggest if you're happy enough calling off on the end here then 4b/c Vs villain becomes feasible? This isn't to say that you should be doing either mind.

I'm going to chuck my hat into the ring and say that as played pre, fold turn. As played post, fold now.

[cambridgealex]

? I mean if part of the reason for calling turn is picking up the flush draw....I would think if he bombs a spade river you are probs beat....so if there is a point to pass it's perhaps the turn?

true, but sometimes we river a flush and it goes check check and we win

[edgascoigne]

? I mean if part of the reason for calling turn is picking up the flush draw....I would think if he bombs a spade river you are probs beat....so if there is a point to pass it's perhaps the turn?

true, but sometimes we river a flush and it goes check check and we win

** aware I'm a fish but this seems a good spot to ask... **

But if there are three spades out there, one in our hand and we assume none in his hand (for now).... that means spades account for 9 of the remaining 44 cards, making us a 3.89/1 poke to make a flush on the end.

The pot size is 39.75 when he bets the turn and we are being asked to call 15, for which we would have to be < 2.65/1 for this to be profitable?

This is of course if we are drawing solely to a flush...

I assume the logic is that sometimes once we call turn the river goes ck/ck and we are good with an unimproved pair of tens and that this is sufficiently common to justify the turn call?

** end fishiness **

[cambridgealex]

I think it's reasonable to fold the turn btw, but yeh the logic is that there's a few different permutations we can win, not just one, so working out our pot odds isn't as simple.

the river can brick and he gives up with his bluffs/semi bluffs
the river can come a spade and he gives up with his bluffs OR checks back nonspade overpairs
the river can come a TEN and we can c/call allin and win a big pot. or just win what's already in the middle.
we could even hero call the spade river and win sometimes.

[outragous76]

he can easily double barrel here holding As

for me fold turn or call call

[edgascoigne]

Ok cool.

I'm pretty sure that I would play the hand exactly the same (can't see myself ever actually passing turn much as I think it's worth considering!) and then fold river, but good to hear/discuss justifications and consider alternatives for doing so rather than solely gut feel/autopilot

[rbc_mike]

Cheers for the replies so far.

My thinking was that against a random on .fr, I think he's polarised to pretty much only value hands otr if he shoves, but can double barrel air on the turn. Was going to call spade rivers, though I think if I'm winning it almost always goes c/c otr. Thoughts?

[Pugwashed]

Fish bet flop and turn and give up river pretty often in this spot so I think call turn, fold river is probably good here

[outragous76]

calling 33 into 54 and we have 2nd pr - not folding river if i call turn

[TL900]

calling 33 into 54 and we have 2nd pr - not folding river if i call turn

from reading your posts in PHA your not much of a believer are you?

[pleno1]

he can easily double barrel here holding As

for me fold turn or call call

Heh guy sure e can but we need I think of an overall range and include value combos as well as barreling combos an understand our equity va his overall range rather than just oh he could bluff here if he has as

[outragous76]

calling 33 into 54 and we have 2nd pr - not folding river if i call turn

from reading your posts in PHA your not much of a believer are you?

lol

im lol'ing as its kinda true - but it can never be horrific calling it off here - especially in cash games

[outragous76]

Patrick/Tom

I am not advocatinig getting it in btw - i personally fold turn

Pads - I do obv consider his whole range - but it appears unspoken in the thread that we are assuming his value range is the top of his range ie QQ+

the point I am making is he can easily choose to barrel with As as he already has the lead, he has a tonne of equity and is never getting it in bad (esp if he thinks we raise flop with sets)

From our point of view with TT - even if he has his semi bluffing range - we are never in fantastic shape

My point is - if we do call turn, we might as well let him bluff off the river and if he has QQ+ then we reload