Etiquette question

[MANTIS01]

I dunno, in that eg not saying anything is kinda foreign behaviour to me. I would instantly ask villain why he's shaking his head with the winning hand. Forget being pissed off about the money I would be puzzled why he's shaking his head with the winning hand. Being openly bewildered and putting the guy on the spot about his weird behaviour isn't some weakness to hide imo. If every player at the table is looking and waiting well let's ask this guy for an explanation. We are reloading and nobody will like this behaviour so challenging is the right thing to do. Letting him out of an impossible situation by smiling politely isn't a win for us. I think a win for us is embarrassing the fock out of him with a series of polite inquisitive questions.

[Honeybadger]

@ Mantis

I strongly believe that the vast majority of poker players would find it practically impossible to interact with the person who has acted so maliciously towards them without betraying the fact that they are upset by his actions. Maybe you are cool enough to do so, but I most definitely was not at that moment in time. In these sort of situations (and they occur with occasional regularity in live poker) it is better to maintain your dignity by not interacting with, or even acknowledging, the perpetrator. When someone acts in this way, any response whatsoever is a reward to them - because that is what they are seeking; a response. By denying them this response you punish them in a very powerful manner. You are showing that you do not even consider their behaviour to be worthy of your attention.

Tbh though, nowadays this sort of thing almost always just washes straight over me anyway. So I no longer have to pretend not to care, I genuinely don't care in the slightest. I have played poker with so many silly people over the years, and seen so much silly behaviour, that for the most part it does not even register in my consciousness any more. So when a similar thing happens to me again I may or may not be cool and unruffled enough that I could interact with the person immediately without either descending to his level or making an idiot of myself. But in truth, I will probably be so genuinely unbothered by the whole thing that I won't even consider it worthy of my attention. After all, it is only a conditioned response that makes us somehow feel hurt/upset when a person asks to see our losing cards or takes a long time to turn over his hand - there is no actual reason why this should bother us in the slightest. I have pretty much given up worrying myself about such things.

It is only when you have learned not to give a fuck about something that you realise it was not worth giving a fuck about in the first place.

[MANTIS01]

I suggested ignoring villain in op example because hero was out and villain's dumb question is irrelevant to somebody who is out. Just blanking villain is empowering. But in your eg I don't agree ignorning is correct on account that we are continuing to play at the table and will be exposed to a continuation of this weird behaviour. His behaviour WOULD rankle me and other people and I don't see the weakness in highlighting that. If villain was coughing all over the table or constantly swearing in front of a woman or eating his greasy food and handling cards his behaviour would rankle me also. Wouldn't flip my shit or anything but wouldn't just bite my tongue and allow that to continue either.

[SuuPRlim]

Wouldn't flip my shit or anything

this is the subtle beauty of a MANTIS post right here.

I think you really like the fact that this will go over 80% of people's heads but that little gem didn't get past me

[blueace]

I suggested ignoring villain in op example because hero was out and villain's dumb question is irrelevant to somebody who is out. Just blanking villain is empowering. But in your eg I don't agree ignorning is correct on account that we are continuing to play at the table and will be exposed to a continuation of this weird behaviour. His behaviour WOULD rankle me and other people and I don't see the weakness in highlighting that. If villain was coughing all over the table or constantly swearing in front of a woman or eating his greasy food and handling cards his behaviour would rankle me also. Wouldn't flip my shit or anything but wouldn't just bite my tongue and allow that to continue either.

I think its fair to say that in the aa/jj case, even if the victim didn't say anything, on the vast majority of tables somebody else would. I know I would.

[Honeybadger]

I think its fair to say that in the aa/jj case, even if the victim didn't say anything, on the vast majority of tables somebody else would. I know I would.

Yeah I agree. Usually another player will say something. And it is definitely better if someone else says something rather than the person who has been the victim of the slowroll or rubdown.

When this sort of thing happens to me at the table, I rarely say anything. However, when someone does this to another player at the table I very often say something to the perpetrator. I do so calmly and politely, and usually the message gets through.

The one thing that does no good at all is if either the victim or an observer gets noticeably annoyed, angry or upset. It happened last week actually at DTD in a cash game. A guy asked to see someone else's losing hand, and another player at the table went off at him in a really angry fashion. The guy who had asked to see the losing hand genuinely did not know what he had done wrong and so was confused and felt under attack. Two minutes later I explained calmly to the guy why what he had done was considered 'bad etiquette' and he instantly understood without any problems.

Getting annoyed with someone achieves nothing. If they already know what they did was wrong, and so did it deliberately, then you are playing into their hands by getting angry/upset. And if they do not know that what they did was wrong then they don't deserve to face your anger since they acted through ignorance not malice.

@ Lil'Dave and Mantis... I didn't get the importance of that 'flip my shit' sentence in the slightest, and still don't. You guys obviously operate on a different level to me

[Tal]

@HB, this was back when mantis was on a different soapbox at the end of last year. All forgotten about now, tho, ish.

[SuuPRlim]

@HB, this was back when mantis was on a different soapbox at the end of last year. All forgotten about now, tho, ish.

I didnt forget it, never will.

[Honeybadger]

Linkie please.

Edited to say: Oh was it the blonde advent calender thing?

[tikay]

Linkie please

Please, no.

Nobody can have any idea how much trouble it caused, it was kept mostly under wraps, but I'd rather that murky pot was not stirred again, please. 

[kinboshi]

Someone was 'flipping their shit' at Honeybadger on Friday.  It was fair enough though, as he was complimenting another player behind his back.  How rude is that?

[Sulphur man]

Next time flip over 75 and shout "in your eye".

like

Like very much.

[rfgqqabc]

Wouldn't flip my shit or anything

this is the subtle beauty of a MANTIS post right here.

I think you really like the fact that this will go over 80% of people's heads but that little gem didn't get past me

I think hb is right but understand what mantis is saying. Post is clearly amazing!

[david3103]

How about the etiquette in turning your hand over in an all in before the river?

I flip mine as soon as it's ok to do so, whether it's 47off or AA but in the Iancredible £100 the other weekend my opponent craned his head around the dealer  to see my  before flipping his 
I watched the board run out and let the dealer take the appropriate chips before asking, in a very polite voice. "Why the delay in turning your cards over?"

He couldn't see an issue and in truth I was more amused than affronted, but I did take some satisfaction when my KJ triumphed over his AK and another shorty's AQ a short while later.

[I KNOW IT]

How about the etiquette in turning your hand over in an all in before the river?

I flip mine as soon as it's ok to do so, whether it's 47off or AA but in the Iancredible £100 the other weekend my opponent craned his head around the dealer  to see my  before flipping his 
I watched the board run out and let the dealer take the appropriate chips before asking, in a very polite voice. "Why the delay in turning your cards over?"

He couldn't see an issue and in truth I was more amused than affronted, but I did take some satisfaction when my KJ triumphed over his AK and another shorty's AQ a short while later.

He wasn't all in until the river, but you are correct as both hands should be flipped as its an All in and a Call situation.