£1/1 Live cash - very loose villain with a 'Hollywood'

[kinboshi]

Live cash game at DTD - £1/1  (Buy-in is capped at £250)

Hero (£380), and has had a decent run of cards as well as being happy with the make-up of the table (generally pretty weak).

Villain (£300) is sat UTG, directly to our right, and has reloaded after working his way up to over £400 through a method of calling any raise pre-flop, and calling through the streets to hit.  Very loose and generally passive, will call most bets to chase any draws.  Has shown a few bluffs and as he has shown to play ATC, these have been pretty successful.  After getting up to £400, he then proceeded to lose all but £80 of it before reloading.  Since then he's managed to hit some lovely straights to crack KK amongst others, and is now sat with about £300.


PRE-FLOP
He has straddled this hand (as he does every orbit) - £2 straddle.

I'm next to act, and have 

I raise to £6

Called in 3 places, including the villain.

FLOP
Pot = £24

Flop: 

SB checks, Villain checks and says "Check to the raiser, who will c-bet as always".

With TPTK I oblige, and make it £20.

Folds round to the villain, who calls.  He's mentioned previously that there are two players he 'respects' at the table, with me being one of them.  So we can question his understanding of the game.

TURN
Pot = £64

on the turn, so the board reads:

He checks again, and I bet £40.

He calls again, saying that he's after the 'pro' (another misread by him).

RIVER
Pot = £144

A blank on the river in the form of  the .



Here is the key moment of the hand for me (unless I've gone massively wrong already).  The villain sighs, mumbles to himself, again mentions trying to get chips off the 'pro', before putting £67 over the line and saying "think that's about £60".

Action's on me - and I'm thinking his 'Hollywooding' is very suspicious.  What do we put him on, and what do we do?

[EvilPie]

There's £120 to be won and any raise is either getting him to fold or shove. In the absence of any dynamic between the 2 of you I can't see any option other than to call.

[kinboshi]

There's £120 to be won and any raise is either getting him to fold or shove. In the absence of any dynamic between the 2 of you I can't see any option other than to call.

What sort of range are you putting him on, and does his Hollywood affect your decision at all - or is it just a "there's so much in there, and I beat some of his range, lose to the rest, so it's a call"?

[titaniumbean]

I want to go through and bold all the bits that made me chuckle because it's such a great OP. Suffice it to say with how he's described i'm never folding, 'probably' not raising. If it wasn't J on the turn then i'd be more worried about him having a ridic raggy 2 pair that you wouldn't assign to most other players however with worse trips in his range and a whole bunch of nonsencical peels i'ma press the middle button.

[kinboshi]

So we beat too much of his range to consider folding here?  It was the Hollywooding that made me consider this as a very possible option...

[david3103]

"Check to the raiser who will c-bet as always"

sounds like he's goading you into making a c-bet and I'm not going to be surprised when he shows up with a flopped set or flopped two pair. J5s and J8s seem to be well within his range given your description of him

[edgascoigne]

£67 for a shot at £211 with trips (top kicker) against this kind of player....?


Slam-dunk call. Simply no way (imo) you aren't best at least one time in four. Added benefit to not raising (aside from the obvious) comes in showing down a strong hand which has a value all of its own.

[EvilPie]

There's £120 to be won and any raise is either getting him to fold or shove. In the absence of any dynamic between the 2 of you I can't see any option other than to call.

What sort of range are you putting him on, and does his Hollywood affect your decision at all - or is it just a "there's so much in there, and I beat some of his range, lose to the rest, so it's a call"?

His sizing's a bit weird. Doesn't look like a bluff and I can't think what he's calling for that he may have missed. This suggests that if he's bluffing he was planning it from the start. Unlikely given his little speech and I think he'd net bigger or more likely just check/jam if he's a proper hero.

His value range consists of houses and Jx combos. I think there's about a 50/50 split of hands that beat and lose to.

I'd never consider folding. If you raise I really can't see anything other than he folds or jams. I can't think of anything he just flats that we want to see and if he shoves we hate life.

Surely if he's got a weaker Jx hand than us he just check/calls again?

Without a lot more info on what's going off between you calling just seems safest.

[SuuPRlim]

mmmmmmmmm sigh I really wanna raise here cos he can have lliterally every JACK. problem is he can have J8 J5 55 and 88 (i think he raises the flop or turn at least SOME of the time with those) also the flop speech play sounds a LOT different to the turn/river speech play "check the the raiser who'll c-bet as always" sounds REALLY like a weakish flopped hand I think in general i would interpret that as him attempting to dissuade me from c-betting over being strong - like if he had a set I think he likely woulnd't say anything like that as mentioning the c-bet might make me think twice about doing it??

This is one of the problems with these external reads though is that everyone is different and people do wierd things, so without knowing anything about the person you can easily make mis-reads and bad assumptions.

The "chips of the pro" comments on the turn and river sounds like totally different to the flop speech, like way more confident, he's not trying to influence your actions now he's just sort of goading you/playing the big man which people usually do when they are super confident, same with the river.

Based on this I'd think J8 J5 55 and 88 were way less likely and the hand im most likely losing to is J3 but given J2/J4/J6/J7/J9/JT/QJ/KJ are all possible and quite a lot of unsuited combo's of those hands as well given the description of him pre-flop I think i'd make a raise for value here and just set him in. No way this player can fold a Jack.

Calling gotta be fine as well, but can't fold ever here based on my instincts about the flop.

[kinboshi]

There's obviously information I'm getting from him that makes me think he's very strong on the river. Maybe I haven't conveyed this correctly.

My instincts were screaming at me to fold,  but I was also thinking:

1. He's bluffing here some of the time. Probably not a high percentage of the time, but a bluff is definitely possible.

2. He is thinking or acting as though he's very strong,  but that doesn't mean he's actually beating my hand. He might think any Jack is good, and might think I'm on an over pair or something. However,he wasn't an idiot and I think he took me for having a decent hand or thought I'm on some elaborate bluff that us 'pros' do...

3. There was enough in the middle to dictate I should call.Probably a mistake long-term to fold here,
even though I think I'm actually behind on this occasion.


So, I called.

[kinboshi]

Be interesting to get Nik's (tight4better) opinion on this hand /player as he was at the table when it happened - and incidentally was the other player that the villain had highlighted as a 'pro' whose play he respected.

[smashedagain]

Really hate the Hollywood. You have to call this clown but tell him that he could have got the lot when he shows you a full house.

[Free_Rollin]

It is a pretty annoying when your instincts are telling you one thing, but your hand and odds dictate another.

The only problem with going with your instincts here is that there is an assumption of what we think he thinks is a good hand. Of course he could have J2 and be thinking there's no way I'm losing here. Since you've mentioned that he appears to be pretty inexperienced, plays ATC, etc etc, I think a call is the way forward. But we're not going to be surprised if he does show 55, 88, J8, J5 or J3.

[Free_Rollin]

Btw, what do we think about the £20 flop bet? Fine size or just a bit too much? 

[Bully87]

Btw, what do we think about the £20 flop bet? Fine size or just a bit too much? 

Makes up for the lack of money that go's in preflop, thins the field and makes what few draws there are payyyyyyy. So fine.