1/3 Live Cash Hand

[dreenie]

I was in a Live 1/3 game at the Vic, I'm sat with like £2700 at this time.  A guy from Norway has been at the table for a few hours, really aggro, but he knows what he is doing, have overheard him say to others he plays high stakes PLO online, and this is just a bit of fun for him. He's in for £3k in this game, but has most of this back, and as the game got short handed (6) he starts being more aggro, but hitting flops.

So I raise his blind with  1 guy flats, and he 3 bets to £75, I peel in position, other guy folds.

Flop 

He leads for £110, I flat call.

Turn 

He fires £400, I flat call.

River 

He checks, I check back, he has JJ.

Question is, should I fold the turn? - He bets the pot on the turn, the way I thought of it was if I hit any of my cards, I can over shove river and thinks he snaps, if Ace comes river I can value about £850 and think he still calls it off. Have I got the right price on the turn?

I have asked a few people, and they all say fold turn, I called, because I felt dynamics of the game at the time, I felt I could get a full double up if I hit the river.

What do you guys think?

[SuuPRlim]

are you OTB? if not deffo fold pre-flop.

I'd fold the turn, you could defo consider raising, calling defo the worst of the 3 options.

[dreenie]

are you OTB? if not deffo fold pre-flop.

I'd fold the turn, you could defo consider raising, calling defo the worst of the 3 options.

I was on the cut off -

[SuuPRlim]

100% fold pre-flop imo, hate these hands they are so bad for deepstacked games.

If you're gonna play these hands you have to be using them to bluff as there relative value is so weak on most streets most of the time, taking passive lines with them is kinda the worst way to play, imo.

[Mondeoman]

Open fold preflop, fold to the 3 bet.  If you're super deep versus a fish you can call here but the problem with a competent player is your implied odds if you make a hand are much worse because i) a lot of the time villain wont actually have a hand thats going to pay you off ii) A decent players not going to get in £2700 with one pair even if it aces.  Most the time you will flop nothing and lose a smallish pot but some of the time you flop half a hand like have here and lose a medium sized pot.  Also when you do make half a hand you could end up getting bluffed off it.

Having got to the turn some of your outs aren't that clean - a 4 could be bad for you if he's barreling an acex type hand.  And if the river is an ace you're not going to get paid that often as villain could well check fold 1010-kk type hands.  Your only real good out is one of the two twos left in the deck.  
Having said that the turn is close as sometimes when he bets you will have the best hand.  If you think you could shove over any river bet (when you miss) and get a fold then you could justify calling the turn - the good part is by the time you get to the river you can never really be bluffing so a shove should get a lot of respect.

In summary though fold at every stage hands like 24s and 23s are significantly worse imo than say 45 or 56.

[dreenie]

Cool, thanks for that, appreciated.

[pleno1]

i usually raise the turn in these spots. we have almost 0 bluff combos and have all the set/2 pair combos in our range. even if we get call we have good equity, we get barrelled too much otr and he can c/f when we improve.

ofc fold pre, twice

[jgcblack]

i usually raise the turn in these spots. we have almost 0 bluff combos and have all the set/2 pair combos in our range. even if we get call we have good equity, we get barrelled too much otr and he can c/f when we improve.

ofc fold pre, twice

Sorry to be boring but 100% this.

Open fold pre, fold to 3b, fold flop, fold turn...

As played, shove turn.


Position is obv great vs good players... BUT if they are actually good then they'll know U can put them in a coffin and will adjust for being OOP.

Live poker is so much easier than this, make pairs + bet big.
When deepstacked, make straights and flushes (kx/ ax) and then bet bigger!

[sedds]

Agree with the above, although arriving on the river, hes unlikely to check anything really strong as you should be checking back quite alot. So i quite like bombing the river; you should have all sets in your range, particularly after he bombs the turn - it wouldn't make sense to raise them there as hes usually following a bet like that up. The fact that he probably knows he will be perceived as aggro leads me to believe that he would expect you to let him barrel off. This stops any s/d value hes caught getting through, as well as probably folding out some overpairs. 

[DMorgan]

Reasons for opening/peeling a 3bet with 4 high vs a competent player 900bbs deep?

[George2Loose]

Reasons for opening/peeling a 3bet with 4 high vs a competent player 900bbs deep?

It was suited

[dreenie]

Reasons for opening/peeling a 3bet with 4 high vs a competent player 900bbs deep?

Opened late pos. (c/o) - when he 3 bets pre, it's stubbornness at first and the fact I have pos. with low suited cards, can make low end straights etc, but obv guessing by this point, and calling knowing I have the worst hand pre.

Flop is stubborn, turn is even more stubborn and river imo, in game how we had been playing each other was a good check, felt he was calling any large amount on almost any river.

[dreenie]

Reasons for opening/peeling a 3bet with 4 high vs a competent player 900bbs deep?

It was suited

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