French problems

[Doobs]

J'ai quatre-vingt-dix-neuf problèmes mais un tir a flush n'en est pas un.

Besoin de plus d'amour

[cambridgealex]

Def fold pre

If we assume he's never folding it's sort of a 65k pot, 50k to call. So against his range based on your read shoving seems bad.

You could say it's 12.5k to win 65k on the flop so 5:1. This is about how often we ping a club turn. Sometimes he has the Ax though, and I guess sometimes we ping a K or Q, the Q especially leaves us in a screwy turn spot. Also we still have MP guy to think about.

So I think sigh fold, but this is all based on your read of course.

I hope my numbers are right, I did only just wake up and am writing on my iPhone

Think this is spot on and pretty much what I was thinking.

Calling seems about breakeven but possibly slightly-EV cos of the guy behind who might jam.

Seems better than jamming which is -EV since I think I'm getting a fold perhaps 5% of the time.

Folding seemed so gross but by elimination, the best option so I did fold.

[jgcblack]

Def fold pre

If we assume he's never folding it's sort of a 65k pot, 50k to call. So against his range based on your read shoving seems bad.

You could say it's 12.5k to win 65k on the flop so 5:1. This is about how often we ping a club turn. Sometimes he has the Ax though, and I guess sometimes we ping a K or Q, the Q especially leaves us in a screwy turn spot. Also we still have MP guy to think about.

So I think sigh fold, but this is all based on your read of course.

I hope my numbers are right, I did only just wake up and am writing on my iPhone

Think this is spot on and pretty much what I was thinking.

Calling seems about breakeven but possibly slightly-EV cos of the guy behind who might jam.

Seems better than jamming which is -EV since I think I'm getting a fold perhaps 5% of the time.

Folding seemed so gross but by elimination, the best option so I did fold.

I'm not having a go, just an inquiry... what was the thinking pre?

[cambridgealex]

It was 3100 more he had 60k back I had KQ fkn suited ip vs a terrible player. Will lose 1 or even 0 bets on Kxx or Qxx (will be able to easily work out if I'm ahead or not) but get the lot if I make something better.

Since he made it 4800 vs a 1700 raise and call (small size). I thought he'd probably cbet more like 6-8k so pot won't be bloated (this was obv wrong but I didn't know that at the time and my assumption is pretty reasonable imo)

Additionally, there was a mega "rec" behind who was over calling 100% so get him involved too (who's range I dominate)

[pleno1]

Plus 1 to all the pre flop foldaments.

As played... 26.5k/call

If you can say 'sorry' in French then that would be advisable too.

Actually 1 25k chip is pretty sexy.

[MANTIS01]

It was 3100 more he had 60k back I had KQ fkn suited ip vs a terrible player. Will lose 1 or even 0 bets on Kxx or Qxx (will be able to easily work out if I'm ahead or not) but get the lot if I make something better.

Since he made it 4800 vs a 1700 raise and call (small size). I thought he'd probably cbet more like 6-8k so pot won't be bloated (this was obv wrong but I didn't know that at the time and my assumption is pretty reasonable imo)

Additionally, there was a mega "rec" behind who was over calling 100% so get him involved too (who's range I dominate)

imo KQ is a marginal hand utg. Think the hand is weak in 3bet pot and ur position is weak also cos you don't close the betting either pre or on flop (and villain prob gonna cbet). Part of your motivation to call is villain has 60k back, but what do we flop to make winning big pot a reality? With Kxx/Qxx we're talking about losing the min and we fold fd. This is on top of most time when we miss and just fold. Think you are being happy to enter the pot with disadvantages because you think you are the better player. That might be so but villain 1 has momentum and villain 2 has position and you have KQ in the middle. I would forget this who the better player shit and just enter pots where you have the advantages to get back on track.

[Oxford_HRV]

I've never played a 1,000 live donkament before and doubt i will any time soon.

What I would do is 4b/f pre all day long with a 65k stack if i knew they played terrible, maybe even fumble my chips for extra levelling, then if they peel one off and we see this flop we stick it in his french eye

[pleno1]

I've never played a 1,000 live donkament before and doubt i will any time soon.

What I would do is 4b/f pre all day long with a 65k stack if i knew they played terrible, maybe even fumble my chips for extra levelling, then if they peel one off and we see this flop we stick it in his french eye

He definitely has an incredibly strong range he is French and could flick in a call from the hh do his range is most likely jj+ and potentially aq+ or ak+ meaning 4 betting would be bad

[jgcblack]

It was 3100 more he had 60k back I had KQ fkn suited ip vs a terrible player. Will lose 1 or even 0 bets on Kxx or Qxx (will be able to easily work out if I'm ahead or not) but get the lot if I make something better.

Since he made it 4800 vs a 1700 raise and call (small size). I thought he'd probably cbet more like 6-8k so pot won't be bloated (this was obv wrong but I didn't know that at the time and my assumption is pretty reasonable imo)

Additionally, there was a mega "rec" behind who was over calling 100% so get him involved too (who's range I dominate)

yer ok, cool.  Just interested.. I know it looks like an Aaron comment.  Hopefully you know it isn't.
This is what I figured.. btw

[youthnkzR]

Never folding pre, especially vs villains a described.

Just get there, gl.

[cambridgealex]

i should fold pre. like my fold on the flop now though. best of 3 bad options.

[action man]

dont subscribe to the theory of "we called pre so we cant fold now" things have changed since preflop. Knowing that is probably going 3 ways im not a hater of the preflop call but im probably folding flop

[Rupert]

I think calling the flop is by far and away the best option. Preflop is whatever, call or fold pre.

It's worth noting that shoving is very likely to be -EV and that folding is obviously 0EV. So calling...

Firstly there is a good chance you hit your flush. Secondly there is some chance you miss your flush and get to see another card. Thirdly it is very likely you win everything if you hit your flush. Fourthly there is some chance you win if you hit a K or Q (I don't believe it's necessarily a reverse implied odds situation either, he is still French). Fifthly you create at least one more decision point for your opponent where you can make good decisions. Sometimes he bets 12.5k again on the turn in which case you are clearly getting odds to call and hit. Sometimes he "traps" with his AA. Sometimes it checks through to the river and he has J4 cos he's a mechanic and the flat tyre is his best friend.

edit: didn't see MP called too. Preflop is an easy call IMO

[buffyslayer1]

I think calling the flop is by far and away the best option. Preflop is whatever, call or fold pre.

It's worth noting that shoving is very likely to be -EV and that folding is obviously 0EV. So calling...

Firstly there is a good chance you hit your flush. Secondly there is some chance you miss your flush and get to see another card. Thirdly it is very likely you win everything if you hit your flush. Fourthly there is some chance you win if you hit a K or Q (I don't believe it's necessarily a reverse implied odds situation either, he is still French). Fifthly you create at least one more decision point for your opponent where you can make good decisions. Sometimes he bets 12.5k again on the turn in which case you are clearly getting odds to call and hit. Sometimes he "traps" with his AA. Sometimes it checks through to the river and he has J4 cos he's a mechanic and the flat tyre is his best friend.

edit: didn't see MP called too. Preflop is an easy call IMO

^^^^perfectly summed up

[JustinSayne]

Not sure what else you were hoping for when you peeled pre.

Obv in the fold pre camp but once you call and get this flop, just flick it in. Were you just hoping to flop 3 queens?

equity    win    tie          pots won    pots tied   
Hand 0:    40.828%     40.83%    00.00%              6063            0.00   { KcQc }
Hand 1:    59.172%     59.17%    00.00%              8787            0.00   { QQ+, JdJh, JdJs, JhJs }

Only given half the combos of JJ and 0 combos of AK. In a vacuum we lose 6k every time we jam if he never folds. So with 18 combos of QQ+ and 3 combos of JJ (giving half) he only needs to have 6 or so AK combos for us to have breakeven flop jam.

Since he will be folding around 25% of the time. So we "win" 25% of the 28k in the middle.