i got c/call donked. mug

[PathFinder]

Don't get me wrong I'm not at all suggesting that folding is bad in this spot. Just good to explore other ways of playing our perceived range. We need try to ignore we have Jack High

[youthnkzR]

Don't get me wrong I'm not at all suggesting that folding is bad in this spot. Just good to explore other ways of playing our perceived range. We need try to ignore we have Jack High

Due to our image, I dare say i don't think he's ever folding a hand he takes this line with. I'd go as far as to say the only way were winning this hand is for a 9 to hit the river.

[buffyslayer1]

we don't have to win every pot, its ok to let one go

fwiw I really like his line as a bluff/semi bluff (without SD value), so I can see why you didn't fold

[pleno1]

Don't get me wrong I'm not at all suggesting that folding is bad in this spot. Just good to explore other ways of playing our perceived range. We need try to ignore we have Jack High

Due to our image, I dare say i don't think he's ever folding a hand he takes this line with. I'd go as far as to say the only way were winning this hand is for a 9 to hit the river.

what, i think the complete opposite. I think he never has a hand here. Always complete floats/random garbage, very surprised by the opinions itt.

[PathFinder]

This looks like a good spot to hit the fold button to me.

If not then we should play our entire range vs Villian because his range isn't super strong with the line he has taken

I did sugget this, did I not?

[rfgqqabc]

Someone we think is at least reasonable has peeled from the bb, c/c flop and donked the turn. Ridiculous bluff line from someone competent. However, if he knows your not going to hit the fold button, then he just donk/calls or donk/shove or w/e the turn and lols. The only way we should continue is if we think he is an idiot, because if he isn't there is no reason to donk here if he is ever going to fold.

[PathFinder]

Don't think it's massively ridiculous as long as Villian also barrels river. Villian knows that we cbet flop 100% of the time with our entire range. So he can call wide here to try and take us off our hand. Which he attempts to do on turn and as long as he barrels river this will get through a lot of times. Let's say he has a low to middle suited connector of clubs. He can make us fold AK JJ etc etc when he could possibly only have 9 high.

Therefore I dont think Villians line is "ridiculous" as long as he follows through on the river

[pleno1]

Someone we think is at least reasonable has peeled from the bb, c/c flop and donked the turn. Ridiculous bluff line from someone competent. However, if he knows your not going to hit the fold button, then he just donk/calls or donk/shove or w/e the turn and lols. The only way we should continue is if we think he is an idiot, because if he isn't there is no reason to donk here if he is ever going to fold.

why is it a ridic bluff line? its a ridic value line imo. qx almsot certainly bluff catches.

i min raise pre, and bet super small on q44.

[PathFinder]

Totally agree with it being a ridic value line

[SuuPRlim]

his thinking is prolly just that this is a better way to bluff than c/r the flop, and cheaper than c/r the turn.

Think as a vacuum playing i like making it 20,500, sets up for (a perceived at least) very comfortable river shove, not saying you SHOULD shove the river but it'll certainly look like you're intending on shoving. Plus you prolly have a lot of fold equity vs his whole range (most of which will be vs bluffs that we're a little bit behind to with J high ) and i think the fact your image is wacky enough to be raising a Q here for value. I also think a LOT of the hands that just CALL here will be 56/67/75 clubs and ofc NFD's and we might actually have enough equity vs that range OTR to not need to bluff as he;s never bet/calling a Q on the turn and chk/folding it OTR though with the image you have. Although this is pretty optimistic thinking

I think calling and raising/betting when checked to on the river will have a lot of theoretical merit but can't see it working all that often here. Vacuum play I like raising or folding, prefer folding though and attacking when we have an A (or K) in our hand with just the tiny amount more showdown value (like if you had AJ) this spot would be much much easier for us. Can't hate on taking off here though with the (urgh) "nutshot" and a range that could include QQ/A4/45/46/34/Q4/K4/AA/KK and against a range which is unlikely to have most of those hands

[pleno1]

think raising turn is v good and jamming river after raising turn is horrific.

however from theory/balance pov, very hard to be balanced as i'm calling almost all value hands ott.

[PathFinder]

Think that's why I would prefer flatting turn then betting river when checked too or going all in vs a river bet as we have more of a value range. This is obviously presuming villian allow us to do this, if hes smart enough he will just shove river or bet enough to fake no fold equitity. Whereas raising turn is much more polarised as why would we re-raise our value hands vs a perceived weak range? All depends on what level Villian is on lol

[rfgqqabc]

Someone we think is at least reasonable has peeled from the bb, c/c flop and donked the turn. Ridiculous bluff line from someone competent. However, if he knows your not going to hit the fold button, then he just donk/calls or donk/shove or w/e the turn and lols. The only way we should continue is if we think he is an idiot, because if he isn't there is no reason to donk here if he is ever going to fold.

why is it a ridic bluff line? its a ridic value line imo. qx almsot certainly bluff catches.

i min raise pre, and bet super small on q44.

Thats why he is doing it. It looks stupid and he wants you to spew.

[pleno1]

Someone we think is at least reasonable has peeled from the bb, c/c flop and donked the turn. Ridiculous bluff line from someone competent. However, if he knows your not going to hit the fold button, then he just donk/calls or donk/shove or w/e the turn and lols. The only way we should continue is if we think he is an idiot, because if he isn't there is no reason to donk here if he is ever going to fold.

why is it a ridic bluff line? its a ridic value line imo. qx almsot certainly bluff catches.

i min raise pre, and bet super small on q44.

Thats why he is doing it. It looks stupid and he wants you to spew.

mtt players can level post flop















[ ]

[TL900]

If he has any idea about hand reading though raising the turn just looks so FOS its unreal, as you said you raise no value hands ott. A hand like KQ is such an easy b/c on the turn when u raise imo.