6 way to the flop, two overs and NFD OOP

[TommyD]

Background:

SPT Stratford, the table is mostly locals with a few Sky Players.  With the exception of 2 or 3 players, the table standard is pretty soft.  Player on my left is a kid who seems to have never played live before so I've been trying to help him out.  About 15 minutes ago he's just caused a bit of uproar by, when asked by the local on his left (Villain 1) if he'd show if he folded to which he agreed, then he went on to hand his cards in face down.  The general atmosphere is a little prickly.  Locals don't like the kids, kids don't care.

Villain 1 - Two to my left, local, very very very vocal.  Has twice taken an aggressive strong line and then folded to returned strength (including the hand I mentioned above).  Turning up with decent aces, all broadways at showdown.  Bit of a cockney and cocky geezer.  Been very chatty with the two on my right.  Has so far open limped and opened to 5x.

Villain 2 - Barmy.  Three to my right, he's wearing the full gear of hoodie, sunglasses and Beats headphones.  Constantly shaking while in a pot.  Has been seen to double float with J5 no pair no draw and been snapped on river, has chased all draws all the way, taken really weird lines and been coming in to 85% of pots, nearly always by calling.  Has bounced between 40k and 15k a couple of times already.

30k Starting stack, we're down to 23k.  We haven't shown anything funky to date, made a couple of folds in half decent pots.  Haven't been that active really but not many at the table would have paid attention to this.

Hero in SB with   
Blinds 100/200

Villain 1 (playing about 35k) UTG opens to 600
Three callers by the time it gets to me.
We flat, BB comes along.

Flop

 

We check, as does BB.
Villain 1 checks.
The original first caller leads for 1200 (very competent player who I have tons of history with, probably hardest spot at the table, never leading here light, has between over pairs and sets)
Two callers (including Villain 2) by the time it gets to me, I flat (thoughts?), BB folds
Villain 1 now C/raises to 7k more
All fold to villain 2, who calls.
To me, now playing 21kish, what do you do?  And what do you do different?

Both Villains cover, Vilian 2 starting the hand with about 28k

[EvilPie]

Pretty sure it's going in.

Likely to be either loads of dead money or if it goes 3 way you've got the right odds to hit your flush.

Good luck.

[Doobs]

I think* you have the odds to do both call and shove, even with only one caller, even if facing a set and just drawing to your spade outs.  I think you should now be aiming to take the most aggressive action.  Sometimes people fold the strangest stuff (like 33). I also think the call of the 1200 is fine, with that many in a pot there is always a decent chance you are facing a set.

It feels bad getting all your chips in behind, but think the maths dictates it here.  It has just turned a bit messy, but you just need to let the maths speak and I don't think you did much wrong.

There is always a chance the check raiser has a combo draw too, which puts you in better shape than you expect.

Doobs

* I haven't checked this, I was up late yesterday and up early today, so struggling to be absolutely sure, and am not planning to stay up and make absolutely sure!

[dwayne110]

Is the 1st caller who led post-flop for 1200 still in the hand and to act behind you? If yes, and you're assigning 2 pair/sets to them then it's a fold surely, only 1200 invested? If he folded to the check-raise by villain 1 then def shoving based on the info you have

[TL900]

Thoughts on leading flop?

[Doobs]

Is the 1st caller who led post-flop for 1200 still in the hand and to act behind you? If yes, and you're assigning 2 pair/sets to them then it's a fold surely, only 1200 invested? If he folded to the check-raise by villain 1 then def shoving based on the info you have

This logic looks wrong.  The more people in the pot, the more chips are in the pot and the better the shove or call is.  If the non pairing spade hits we scoop no matter if there are 5 villians or just 1 in the pot.

[TommyD]

Is the 1st caller who led post-flop for 1200 still in the hand and to act behind you? If yes, and you're assigning 2 pair/sets to them then it's a fold surely, only 1200 invested? If he folded to the check-raise by villain 1 then def shoving based on the info you have

This logic looks wrong.  The more people in the pot, the more chips are in the pot and the better the shove or call is.  If the non pairing spade hits we scoop no matter if there are 5 villians or just 1 in the pot.

The post flop leader has folded.

[BulldozerD]

Might fold non NFDs but jamming this now I think

[SuuPRlim]

I think i'd c/r the flop

[tight4better]

Even if I give the guy 2p+ I'm not folding because of all the dead money.

I also might donk the flop.

gl

[SuuPRlim]

dnt likee donking the flop. chking keeps weaker hands in the pot and raising gives us most FE. chk/call prolly slightly better but we might not get to realise our equity as often OTT, but gte to keep weaker draws in, chk/raising will from time to time get us in with 30% eq. and may freeze weaker draws out but defo has a lot of FE and means we nearly always realise our equity.

[TommyD]

I think i'd c/r the flop

Yeah I considered this, pretty much was the original plan on the flop.  The problem I had was that we were still six way the second time it came around to me, one person who I know isn't light and who will know that they are not always beat if I c/r.  The table was pretty loose passive too, just had visions of getting four callers and seeing a blank turn roll off.  Now I've bloated the pot OOP and lost half of my equity in the hand, now what?

Re:  Leading the flop, truth be told I don't donk lead enough (in other words, ever.  Meh, at least it's balanced that way).  I know I have to start doing it but I'm not sure this was the spot to pop that particular cherry.

[tight4better]

Sorry completely misread the first post.

[PathFinder]

Seems like a good spot to 3bet squeeze pre flop. Any thoughts on this line tommy?

[mulhuzz]

think c/r flop is best line -- don't mind a squeeze pre but think flatting fine too.

as played I'm just zipping it right here and letting people call off worse (which they defo can have at least some small % (dominated draws, ldo)) or giving us two free shots to smash it on the turn if (as you suspect) we're behind to 2pr+ (which they can defo have, but also can be getting it in lighter than this, too!).

Flatting means we might get tempted to do something stupid like fold if we don't smash the turn and tis hard to realise equity.